Developer Forum

Saturday Eve

Creating 2 networks; infrastructure hotspot, and adhoc peer-to-peer.

Equipment
2 computers
XP home: using Linksys WMP54G, set to use B only
98se: using Linksys wmp11 B

Router: BEFsr11 one port router

Access point: Linksys wet11 Airlink

The router is connected to the Airlink and to a local wireless internet provider antenna: this is an open Hot-Spot.

The computers are separated by 1 floor and a brick wall.

Both computers can use the Hot-Spot connection

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am having trouble with the Ad-Hoc connection:.

The XP computer is using the Windows Wireless Configuration service.
(The Linksys WLAN configuration utility will not function.)

The 98 comp. is using the Linksys WLAN configuration utility.

I have entered the info for an Ad-Hoc network to link the computers, peer-to-peer.
Using the same SSID, WEP Shared encryption, 13 letter pass phrase, using channel 6.

The XP computer can find the network, indicates it is connected and not connected.
The 98 computer cannot find the shared network.

I figger this has something to do with DHCP since both computers are set to obtain an IP Address automatically.

I cannot determine a way to allocate static addresses, and subnet mask, for the Ad-Hoc network while allowing dynamic addresses for
the Hot-Spot network.

Guidance please.

J

n Sun, 10 Apr 2005 08:48:15 -0400, "J" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


Let's see if I understand what you're saying. You have 2 computers, each
connecting wirelessly to a WET11, which connects to a BEFSR11. The BEFSR11 is
your DHCP server. The WET11 is a bridge, which simply connects the wireless
devices (2 computers) to the wired device (BEFSR11 router with DHCP).

This doesn't look like an ad-hoc setup to me. You have a WAP, the WET11,
providing the SSID, right? So why are you running in ad-hoc mode, if both
computers can use the Hot-Spot? And if you're in ad-hoc mode, are both
computers getting internet service?

You have several interesting situations here.

First, you're using your router as a wireless bridge to your internet feed.
What channel is the internet feed on? Is the WAP maybe getting interference
from the internet feed (channel 6 could be subject to interference from a number
of channels)? How about the make and model of the "local wireless internet
provider antenna" connected to the BEFSR11?

Secondly, you do have horizontal (brick wall) and vertical (1 floor) signal
radiation patterns to consider.

Thirdly, assuming that you solve your wireless problems, you have a Windows 98
and a Windows XP computer on the same LAN. Check for a browser conflict between
the WinXP computer and the Win98 computer. I"m not talking about Internet
Explorer here. The browser is the program that allows any computer to see any
other computer on the LAN. The browsers for WinXP (WinNT/2K/XP) and Win98
(Win95/98/ME) don't work well together on the same LAN.

Make sure the browser service is running on the WinXP computer. Control Panel -
Administrative Tools - Services. Verify that the Computer Browser, and the
TCP/IP NetBIOS Helper, services both show with Status = Started. Disable the
browser on the Win98 computer:
http://cms.simons-rock.edu/faq_by_subtopic/node138.html
http://www.compudentsystems.com/documentation/win98.html

After checking / disabling / enabling as above, power both computers off to
reset the browser settings on each. Once both computers have been powered off,
power them back on.

The Microsoft Browstat program will show us what browsers (I'm not talking about
Internet Explorer here) you have in your domain / workgroup, at any time.
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305

You can download Browstat from either:
<http://www.dynawell.com/reskit/microsoft/win2000/browstat.zip>
<http://rescomp.stanford.edu/staff/manual/rcc/tools/browstat.zip>

Browstat is very small (40K), and needs no install. Just unzip the downloaded
file, copy browstat.exe to any folder in the Path, and run it from a command
window, by "browstat status", on the XP computer.
For more information about the browser subsystem (very intricate), see:
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188001
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=188305
http://support.microsoft.com/?id=231312
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbrowse.mspx>
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/archive/win95/w95brows.mspx>

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

i

I do not totally understand your description but given your Hardware it does
not seem that there is a place for Ad-Hoc configuration in your Network.

The WET11 is neither an Access Point nor a Bridge (though in order to
confuse people ;) it is called bridge something).

The WET11 is a Wireless Driverless Client Card. It has to be connected to an
infrastructure Wireless Cable/Router or an Access Point as a regular
Wireless Client Card.

Being Driverless it can be plugged into a Switch and thus feed Wirelessly
few remote Computers.

Wireless - Basic Configuration: http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Config.html

Wireless Security - http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Security.html


Wireless Modes: http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html

Wireless Bridging: http://www.ezlan.net/bridging1.html

Jack (MVP-Networking).





"Chuck" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
wrote:
provider antenna: this is an open Hot-Spot.
--------------------------
peer-to-peer.
channel 6.
connected.
to obtain an IP Address automatically.
for the Ad-Hoc network while allowing dynamic addresses for
BEFSR11 is
wireless
feed.
interference
number
internet
signal
Windows 98
between
any
Panel -
the
the
to
off,
about
downloaded
command
<http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winntas/deploy/prodspecs/ntbro
wse.mspx>

Sunday Eve

Why an Ad-Hoc connection?

I want to have a private network connection when moving files between these 2 computers.

Hence, I want not to use the router. It is part of a public Hot-Spot.
(And, there are times when the router is not available.)

So, I figger I can setup a peer-to-peer network to connect these 2 computers.

The 98 Linksys configuration software does not allow setting of an IP address only for 1 network.

The 98 comp appears it can only have one address.

Therefore, the XP computer must play the role of a DHCP server.

--------------------------------------

I will be very surprised if it is not possible to have an Infrastructure network, and an Ad-Hoc network available.

I am skeptical that I am first on this planet to want to do this.

But, even with 6+ gig people on the planet, we each are probably first at something.

--------------------------------------

Both computers can connect to the internet via the access/bridge, router, and wireless internet "modem."

The 98 computer is very near the bridge/router. This means the XP comp is about equal distance to both.


Any further observations will be enjoyed.

J


----- Original Message -----
From: "J"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Wireless: an Infrastruture and an Ad-Hoc network how to assign IP addresses?


Saturday Eve

Creating 2 networks; infrastructure hotspot, and adhoc peer-to-peer.

Equipment
2 computers
XP home: using Linksys WMP54G, set to use B only
98se: using Linksys wmp11 B

Router: BEFsr11 one port router

Access point: Linksys wet11 Airlink

The router is connected to the Airlink and to a local wireless internet provider antenna: this is an open Hot-Spot.

The computers are separated by 1 floor and a brick wall.

Both computers can use the Hot-Spot connection

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am having trouble with the Ad-Hoc connection:.

The XP computer is using the Windows Wireless Configuration service.
(The Linksys WLAN configuration utility will not function.)

The 98 comp. is using the Linksys WLAN configuration utility.

I have entered the info for an Ad-Hoc network to link the computers, peer-to-peer.
Using the same SSID, WEP Shared encryption, 13 letter pass phrase, using channel 6.

The XP computer can find the network, indicates it is connected and not connected.
The 98 computer cannot find the shared network.

I figger this has something to do with DHCP since both computers are set to obtain an IP Address automatically.

I cannot determine a way to allocate static addresses, and subnet mask, for the Ad-Hoc network while allowing dynamic addresses for
the Hot-Spot network.

Guidance please.

J

n an AD-HOC network there is no DHCP server. You set one computers NIC to
something like 192.169.1.100 Subnet 255.255.255.0 and the other to
192.168.1.110 Subnet 255.255.255.0 and the two wireless adapters to AD-HOC
Mode, channel whatever you want and there you go. Here is a good article on
how to setup a AD-HOC network.

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/using/networking/expert/bowman_02april08.mspx?pf=trueHi

Robert.....


"J" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

n Sun, 10 Apr 2005 23:16:56 -0400, "J" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


OK, the plot thickens. You are trying to feed one computer directly from a
public hot-spot, and use Internet Connection Sharing to feed that service to a
second computer.

I can see several challenges from that setup.

First, you need two network connections on the computer directly connected to
the public internet service. One connection (wireless) connects to the service,
and the second (also wireless in your case) connects to your ad-hoc LAN.

Second, there are issues with ad-hoc wireless networks using ICS and DHCP.
Linksys published a white paper, somewhere on their website, which describes why
they don't recommend it.

Third, if you don't make a separate WLAN (and on another channel) all of your
wireless traffic will compete with the wireless traffic at the hotspot. Even if
you use a different SSID, your WLAN will have to coexist with the hotspot for
channel use. And even if you use a different channel, you could get signal
bleed over, causing degraded and unreliable performance.

I really think you'll be better off getting a wireless router, using the WET11
to feed the router, and setting up an infrastructure WLAN on a different
channel. ICS is a pain in the ass, ICS with ad-hoc wireless even more so.
Please get a router, and forget about ICS.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

i

Following Chuck's valid arguments.

Get a WET11 and a Wireless Cable/DSL Router.

Feed the Router WAN with the WET11. Set your Wireless to a different channel and
configure your Wireless Network with WEP/WAP.

This page describes a different setting but it is demonstrating the principle.

http://www.ezlan.net/shield.html

Jack (MVP-Networking).




"Chuck" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...
computers.
for 1 network.
an Ad-Hoc network available.
wireless internet "modem."
distance to both.
antenna: this is an open Hot-Spot.
--------------
IP Address automatically.
Ad-Hoc network while allowing dynamic addresses for

onday 12:05pm

I thank you all for you responses.

It is apparent to me that I have not clearly described my intentions.


The Hot-Spot consists of:
Access point/bridge: Linksys wet11 Airlink
Router: BEFsr11 one port router
Wireless Internet Modem

This is a public internet access point. It is wide open.

It is located in a restaurant on the first floor of our building.

One of our computers is located above the restaurant..
One is located in the storefront next to the restaurant.

Both of our computers use this hot-spot for fast internet access .

This is fine.

(We also have a dial-up account configured on both computers.)

-----------------------------------------------------------
Since this connection is un-encrypted, I want to have an ALTERNATE network available to use for file transfers between the
computers. I want this connection to be encrypted, requiring passwords.

I am new to wireless connections. So, when I am provided with the possibility of multiple networks, and a choice of Infrastructure,
and Ad-Hoc types of networks, I figger I can set up a 2nd network connection to accomplish the protected file transfers.

I do NOT expect these 2 network connections to be available simultaneously.
That is, I understand the internet connection will NOT be available when using the Ad-Hoc network.

----------------------------------------------------------

I am getting the feeling the technology is not yet available to quickly change between a network that uses a static address and one
that uses a dynamic IP address.

---------------------------------------------------------

J




"J"
Sunday Eve

Why an Ad-Hoc connection?

I want to have a private network connection when moving files between these 2 computers.

Hence, I want not to use the router. It is part of a public Hot-Spot.
(And, there are times when the router is not available.)

So, I figger I can setup a peer-to-peer network to connect these 2 computers.

The 98 Linksys configuration software does not allow setting of an IP address only for 1 network.

The 98 comp appears it can only have one address.

Therefore, the XP computer must play the role of a DHCP server.

--------------------------------------

I will be very surprised if it is not possible to have an Infrastructure network, and an Ad-Hoc network available.

I am skeptical that I am first on this planet to want to do this.

But, even with 6+ gig people on the planet, we each are probably first at something.

--------------------------------------

Both computers can connect to the internet via the access/bridge, router, and wireless internet "modem."

The 98 computer is very near the bridge/router. This means the XP comp is about equal distance to both.


Any further observations will be enjoyed.

J


----- Original Message -----
From: "J"
Newsgroups: microsoft.public.windowsxp.network_web
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2005 8:48 AM
Subject: Wireless: an Infrastruture and an Ad-Hoc network how to assign IP addresses?


Saturday Eve

Creating 2 networks; infrastructure hotspot, and adhoc peer-to-peer.

Equipment
2 computers
XP home: using Linksys WMP54G, set to use B only
98se: using Linksys wmp11 B

Router: BEFsr11 one port router

Access point: Linksys wet11 Airlink

The router is connected to the Airlink and to a local wireless internet provider antenna: this is an open Hot-Spot.

T

n Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:23:55 -0400, "J" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


Changing between dynamic and static addressing is quite easily done - I script
it using .cmd files, as I have one computer that I move from my LAN (dynamic
address) to a direct connection to my router (static address), so I can
reprogram the router easily.

Change to Dynamic:
netsh int ip set addr local dhcp
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /all

Change to Static (some values have been munged to protect the innocent):
ipconfig /release
netsh int ip set address "Local Area Connection" static nnn.nnn.0.7
255.255.255.0 nnn.nnn.0.1 1
ipconfig /all

I still think you are trying to configure your network in a way that doesn't
make sense. Ad-hoc networks were designed to allow any number of wireless
devices to interconnect, casually, without using a central device (router or
WAP). The key word here is interconnect, that is, if you interconnect your two
computers, do you need also to connect to the outside world?

If you want to connect your two computers, allow safe, discrete file sharing
between the two, and also get internet feed from the outside, get a router. You
can get one for $40 or so. You can setup two separate network configurations,
and switch between them, if you wish. But what do you gain?

You can play with running .cmd files, as above. Or try these commercial
products, which may also be scriptable:

Mobile Net Switch
http://www.mobilenetswitch.com

MultiNetwork Manager
http://www.globesoft.com/mnm_home.html

NetSwitcher
http://www.netswitcher.com

But, in my professional opinion, you would be much better off just getting a
router.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

onday eve

Thank you for your reply.


What router do you suggest, and how will I use it?

I cannot run wire between these 2 computers.

AND: the hot spot provides fast internet access for both computers.

But I do not feel comfortable yet sharing folders via the hot-spot router.

Maybe you can provide guidance as to how I could do so with a reasonable level of security.
--------------------------

Will your scripts run on a 98 computer?


J



"Chuck" On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 12:23:55 -0400, "J"


Changing between dynamic and static addressing is quite easily done - I script
it using .cmd files, as I have one computer that I move from my LAN (dynamic
address) to a direct connection to my router (static address), so I can
reprogram the router easily.

Change to Dynamic:
netsh int ip set addr local dhcp
ipconfig /release
ipconfig /renew
ipconfig /all

Change to Static (some values have been munged to protect the innocent):
ipconfig /release
netsh int ip set address "Local Area Connection" static nnn.nnn.0.7
255.255.255.0 nnn.nnn.0.1 1
ipconfig /all

I still think you are trying to configure your network in a way that doesn't
make sense. Ad-hoc networks were designed to allow any number of wireless
devices to interconnect, casually, without using a central device (router or
WAP). The key word here is interconnect, that is, if you interconnect your two
computers, do you need also to connect to the outside world?

If you want to connect your two computers, allow safe, discrete file sharing
between the two, and also get internet feed from the outside, get a router. You
can get one for $40 or so. You can setup two separate network configurations,
and switch between them, if you wish. But what do you gain?

You can play with running .cmd files, as above. Or try these commercial
products, which may also be scriptable:

Mobile Net Switch
http://www.mobilenetswitch.com

MultiNetwork Manager
http://www.globesoft.com/mnm_home.html

NetSwitcher
http://www.netswitcher.com

But, in my professional opinion, you would be much better off just getting a
router.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.

You've got a Linksys WET11, I should think another Linksys would be a good idea,
say a WAP54G. Be sure to setup WPA for protection.

You could run a VPN between the two computers, that would be a good idea even if
you have your own WLAN. You use the WET11 to bridge the WAN side of the WAP54G
to the hot-spot, and connect your two computers to the WLAN setup by the WAP54G.

Lastly no, the "netsh" command is Windows 2K/XP only. It's not true that
"technology is not yet available", but the available technology just doesn't
include legacy unsupported operating systems. For Windows 98, try one of the
commercial programs.

--
Cheers,
Chuck
Paranoia comes from experience - and is not necessarily a bad thing.
My email is AT DOT
actual address pchuck sonic net.