My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by bryan010 » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 05:58:59


This is a post about the recent FileSsytem crash I had, and to
give advices to future linux users if the question of which file system
to choose. I'm no kernel/FS hackers, but as a user, I have used pretty
much all major distros for the past 6 years (as my daily machine)
including source-based gentoo.

I have about 3-4 hundred gigs of space 70% used in my newly
purchased Dell machine (not my old overclocked dual procs
self-assembled bleeding edge hardware). And seeing the Fedora Core 5
just came out, have to try it out (I still think RHAT being the biggest
800lb Gorrilla is still in better position than others when fighting
the MSFT dinosaurs).

All the FileSystem (FS frm now on) are reiserfs 3 except /boot,
as I been using the reiserfs with noatime for past 2 years. It seems
fast, and comparatively safe (XFS/JFS).

Well, after the FC5 installation, I was going through the usual
getting-latest-kernel-compiling-modules-just-to-get-somethin-workin
routine. The machine hanged...hard. Well no problem it seemed, seeing
the hard drive was not being accessed, I promptly do a hard reset. Bad
idea,. After that, the next boot, the kernel tells me one of my biggest
logical reiserfs partition name MP3, it's "superblock" is missing /
corrupted, and would not go any further. Well, okay, dun panick. Grab
one of the live CD, take out the partition in fstab and reboot. Once go
in, reiserfsck the partition tells me I need to reiserfsck
--rebuild-sb.

Now at this point, I was just really pissed not just about the
situation, but about the lack of professionism for reiserfs. The Error
msg reiserfs team put in has the "give us $25 and we'll help you for 10
minutes" paragraph, as well as all the CREDITS. But it doesn't explain
clearly what the user to do at this point, and what are the other
options. If a user is Joe sixpack w/ no computer science background see
this, he would've backup whatever the data left, and take out the rusty
winxp cd for restall.

So I did the --rebuild-sb. Well it turns out it's a logical
partition within the extend one. And reiserfsck prompt you for lots
question including block size. I know the answer, but why can't a great
programmer who did this amazing (?!) fsck prog figure out the stupid
block size for the partition? I mean it's not hard....so at least scan
the partition and tell the user if he wants to select that.

After reiserfs --rebuild-sb, things sink even more, now the
superblock is still bad, and I can't even access the /dev/hdcx device.
At this point I googled pretty much for a whole day, and learn as much
as I can about reiserfs....it didn't help. So I ddrescue (it's a great
tool, you'd love it more than your gf when hdd crashes.) the whole
100gig partition to a image file. And then I mount it with losetup as a
loop drive, and try reiserfsck --rebuild-tree on it. Still wouldn't
work, Device doesn't exist. Well, then try zeroing out the partition
table and recreate it. w/ dd if=/dev/zero . Now reiserfsck prompts me
about superblock again. I tried --rebuild-sb again, --rebuild-tree. No
luck....the partition there, but I cannot touch it.

Couple of important things I realized,
1) reiserfs (version 3) IS NOT ATOMIC. What it means is it journal the
metadata portion, metadata is atomic, but not the data. So there is
still potential corruption when there are power outage or
user-stupidity. Daniel Robbin has some articles at ibm.com dis
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Stanislaw » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:18:42


[amazing]
That a NT 5.1 user can write so much using the "command prompt" tools.
[/amazing]

Having fun

Stanislaw
Slack (with working reiserfs) user from Ulladulla.

 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Gran » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 06:59:47


Full of misinformation, reiserfs3 is a stable well proven filesystem.

Consider not overclocking, and reading the instructions.

Grant.
--
Memory fault -- brain fried
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Jhair Toca » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 07:00:54

bryan0101 writes:

<rant>

[reiserfs nightmare]

Not only that. In many cases when reiserfsck fails the only help you
will get from the reiserfs guys is an advice to update reiserfsck to
the latest snapshot of the tool (after the old version already f*cked
your disk :-().


I also had terrible experiences with reiserfs. Furthermore I doubt
reiserfs4 will ever get into the official kernel tree. There are few
(if any) distros which support reiserfs out of the box.

</rant>

--
--Jhair
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Dances Wit » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:11:04

On Mon, 27 Mar 2006 00:00:54 +0200, Jhair Tocancipa Triana staggered
into the Black Sun and said:

Hey, it's Jhair again. Looks like you might've taken Sam Trenholme's
advice about thinking before posting, if so, good job.


Why should a filesystem need "regular maintainance"? (XFS doesn't even
have an fsck, really, though it does have xfs_repair....)


Yeah, developers are like that. But my experience with ReiserFS and its
tools has been a *lot* different:

In the period between kernels 2.4.0 and 2.4.4, there was a bug that
caused random data corruption in VIA chipsets if DMA was enabled. The
board I was using at the time had a VIA chipset, and of course I had DMA
turned on. / and /home were ReiserFS. The kernel bug scribbled
randomly on pieces of my ReiserFS partitions. reiserfsck fixed
*everything* without data loss.


Damn, what are y'all doing here? I've had several ReiserFS partitions
on my desktop (now /, /home, and /var) since ReiserFS was the next big
thing in 2000/2001. The *only* problems I've ever had with it were
related to the kernel bugs present in 2.4.0..2.4.4. (Then again, I use
vanilla kernels, which usually have fewer weird bugs than distro-patched
kernels.)


? SuSE was the first big distro to support it, somewhere around SuSE
6.4 or 7.0. They still distribute ReiserFS tools and modules with the
box sets of SuSE/Novell according to a quick grep of suse.com. Gentoo
and Debian Stable support ReiserFS for sure out of the box. No idea
what Fedora or Mandrake do. But IME, ReiserFS 3.6 is stable.

--
Matt G|There is no Darkness in Eternity/But only Light too dim for us to see
Brainbench MVP for Linux Admin / mail: TRAP + SPAN don't belong
http://www.yqcomputer.com/ / "He is a rhythmic movement of the
-----------------------------/ penguins, is Tux." --MegaHAL
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by John-Paul » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:37:16


[snip long rant about filesystem corruption]

Why is it that backups are always the *last* thing people do, *after*
they've lost data? I don't get it. It's amazing how much time and
effort can be saved in the event of a disaster with a well-planned
backup scheme (which itself should take very little time or effort once
it's set up).
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Gran » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 10:11:17


I'll add to this, I run reiserfs3 on any partition > 128MB (below that
size I use ext2) on seven boxen with over 700GB storage space without a
single problem due to unexpected power failure or reboot due to hit
RESET button. Zero dataloss due to reiserfs. No need for reiserfsck
as I see the journal re-run check on reboot.

No unexpected lockups that ext3 was giving back when redhat9 was the go.
I've not used ext3 since a few years, no need.

Don't confuse the reliable Reiserfs3 with the very experimental Reiserfs4.

Grant.
--
Memory fault -- brain fried
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by hackson. » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 21:08:04

That's a good idea.
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by Robert Hul » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:27:06

In comp.os.linux.misc, on Mon 27 March 2006 13:08, hackson.w


WTF are you on about?

Now comes the "canned" speech about what's wrong with GG posting. It's
offered as a learning tool, to help you get more, and better help,
without
upsetting old grouches, like me, in the process. Read it in that spirit.
If you detect a note of anger, or frustration, it's not with you, but
rather with GG, for their crappy implementation of their interface. ;-)

OK, let's start with the basics: Do you know what Usenet is? Do you know
what a News Group is? How about a news server? Click on this link for
the
answers.

http://www.yqcomputer.com/

Google unfortunately decided not to use the standards of quoting on
Usenet. A quick fix can be read on the following page:

http://www.yqcomputer.com/

If you want to get better help and learn more, please read on.

I sympathize with your problems, and am more than willing to help you
solve them. To do so you should follow the correct quoting principles
and good Netiquette explained in this FAQ available at;

http://www.yqcomputer.com/

While you are at it, read the whole document and the links provided in
it as well. Lots of good things there.

Due to the bad quoting habits and the amount of drivel coming from
postings done via Google Groups, numerous people have resorted in
kill filing (not reading or responding to) all postings done with
Google.
This means fewer knowledgeable people that are able, or willing, to help
you. Proper quoting, and good netiquette, will keep more from doing the
same.

It's not your fault you got sucked into GG's bad habits. It will be your
fault, if you don't act to remedy the situation. Remember this: it's in
your best interest to keep these knowledgeable people happy, by
following
a few simple rules. If you don't, you will be the only loser.

To get the best possible result from your postings, it is better to use
a
newsreader or Usenet client. Linux has many dedicated news readers, as
well as browsers with built in news readers.

If you're running SUSE Linux, look on your menu, under Internet -->
News, and you'll see which news readers you have installed. If you're
running something else, look for a good newsreader. Don't use an email
program.

Find a Usenet server that you can post to. Your ISP probably has one.
There are also free ones out there, that Google will help you locate.
Type in "Usenet free servers". better yet, use this:

http://www.yqcomputer.com/

The one your provider has is most likely the better, faster and easier
choice. Set up the news reader of your choice, download the groups
list, type linux in the search box, then subscribe to alt.os.linux. and
alt.os.linux.<your distro> as well as any others that interest you;
comp.os.linux.<whatever> may also prove helpful.

When I see correct quoting from you, instead of what Google has been
forcing you to do, I'll be right there to greet you, and help get you
going. Until then:

I am out of here.

--
Robert HULL

Archival or publication of this article on any part of thisishull.net
is without consent and is in direct breach of the Data Protection Act
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by CBFalcone » Tue, 28 Mar 2006 23:46:56


I'm sure it is. A better idea might be to include context, so
people other than yourself could know what, if anything, you are
talking about. See my sig below, and the referenced URLs, for
means of using the broken foul google interface to usenet.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: < http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ;
Also see < http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ;
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by bryan010 » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 06:26:48

My post only tells what happened to me for the past week, and I agreed
reiserfs is mature enough for mid-high lvl regular linux users to use.
But what I'm trying to get the point across is that the ext2/ext3
albeit slower in SOME cases (Daniel Robbins mention it actually pretty
much even out when in normal usage), it's nice that I can default it
back to ext2, and work with pretty much all the recover tools SHOULD
there be any faulty hardware / software problems.

The 2nd post has no merit, and yes I use NT, starting from
NT4-server2003 along with gentoo, FC, Suse (before Novell), Ubuntu,
debian. I just have a computer science degree, workin my way for Master
and I work for the sixth largest software consulting firm. I only
consider myself newbie in Linux.

Again the machine is stable Dell, w/ no faulty Hardware. And sorry if I
iconfused someone, the reiserfs is version 3, not 4. BUT my point is
it's more dangerous using reiserfs in the sense that when it fail, and
the buildin 2-3 command line tools dun work, you are left with VERY few
options. And a disk drive left span can be rather short depend on luck.

BTW I'll add that I'm using a fedora testing version of 2.6.16 kernel

and Yes I'll BACKUP more often for sure.
 
 
 

My Switch Between EXT3 and REISERFS AND EXT3 AND......

Post by CBFalcone » Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:00:37


... snip ...

What post? What did it say that has some bearing here?

... snip ...

What 2nd post? What did it say that is of interest?

Google is NOT usenet. It is only a foul excuse for an interface to
usenet. In particular, there is no reason to assume that any
reader has access to, or has ever had, or will have, access to any
post other that the one he is reading NOW. I.e. each post has to
stand on its own. That means including adequate context. For
means of doing this on the #$%& google interface, see my sig and
the URLs referenced below.

--
"If you want to post a followup via groups.google.com, don't use
the broken "Reply" link at the bottom of the article. Click on
"show options" at the top of the article, then click on the
"Reply" at the bottom of the article headers." - Keith Thompson
More details at: < http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ;
Also see < http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ;