Fast tracked features (was: My top five most annoying things about C++)

Fast tracked features (was: My top five most annoying things about C++)

Post by s_googlegr » Sat, 29 May 2004 11:01:22


n Thu, 27 May 2004 16:00:42 +0000 (UTC), David Abrahams
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


I thought you had?

Regarding implications and taking move constructors as an example, what's
the impact?

1. Slight changes to the compiler
2. Some changes to the STL
3. Slight enhancements of the source of a test application

If one were to patch in support to a major compiler - GCC is handy - one
could have worked out all the implications and problems within weeks. One
needn't patch all of the SGI STL - just say vector<> and list<> which
would be enough for testing.

After getting yourself happy, circulate on the internet among people who'd
also really like the feature. After they test it, one can be pretty sure
one has all the angles covered. A bugzilla entry can work as a central
discussion point for all parties.

To qualify as a fast-tracked small feature, the ability to swiftly patch
it in and get widespread volunteer testing is paramount (ie; parallelising
debugging). In fact, one could view how I did the GCC visibility patch
that I originally arrived here for as a template - it's taken two months
overall and will be in GCC v3.5.


You know I'm no good with theoretical discussions, everyone just gets
confused (remember c++-sig!). I cannot contribute directly in any useful
fashion to the ISO C++ standardisation process as it currently works. I
could however go patch GCC to add move constructors though unfortunately
the GCC maintainers would not accept such a patch into the mainline as the
standard hasn't ruled on it yet.

If there were a fast-track mechanism based on normative addendums whereby
it worked via a volunteer patching in support to GCC, other volunteers
testing it and then the original volunteer writing up a report consisting
of:

1. Impact of the patch on other areas of C++ (existing source especially)
2. Cost of implementation (to GCC)
3. Benchmarks of improvements (before & after code)
4. A proposed diff of the standard adding the feature

.. then I could be much more useful. And not just me, I can see a lot of
people becoming interested because now they actually can DO something -
not by talking across a period of years and spending thousands of euros
visiting expensive international conferences but actually sitting down and
coding.

For this, the ISO C++ committee would need a website where volunteers can
coordinate (basically a bugzilla server). We'd also need a FREE copy of
the full standard to generate diffs against and much better electronic
presence of proposed amendments so people can foresee contraindications.
And lastly, some assurance that work done would be taken seriously at the
six month meetings and perhaps crediting of those who have contributed.


If you lament the lack of volunteers, consider how someone unemployed for
two years can possibly afford to attend committee meetings?

Consider the huge obstacles placed in the way of attracting volunteers:
total lack of immediacy (long times between proposal and acceptance),
primitive use of the internet and far too much theory and not enough
coding. People also feel deliberations go on in private as there is
precious little evidence in public - I've only ever seen committee reports
in (costly) trade magazines.

The mode of production of free software is ideal for minor new features to
the standard - it would also remove large amounts of work from y
 
 
 

Fast tracked features (was: My top five most annoying things about C++)

Post by franci » Sun, 30 May 2004 02:00:02

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Niall Douglas
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes

Then join ACCU where we provide a bi-monthly report on what is happening
at WG21 and WG14.

Join J16 (agreed that is not as cheap) you do not have to attend
meetings unless you want to be able to vote.

However be assured that the one thing we will not be doing is
continually adding or modifying C++. That way lies chaos (Java already
has that and the only way to ensure your Java code does what you think
it will is to ship the JVM along with the app.)

--
Francis Glassborow ACCU
Author of 'You Can Do It!' see http://www.yqcomputer.com/
For project ideas and contributions: http://www.yqcomputer.com/

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Fast tracked features (was: My top five most annoying things about C++)

Post by Sergiy Kan » Wed, 02 Jun 2004 21:04:49


Could you give more datails about that. The ACCU Site states that

"Those interested in the C and C++ standardisation processes may join the
ISO Standards Development Forum. The ACCU provides these members with
access to current standardisation material and a bi-yearly standards
briefing letter ..."

Unfortunately, I can not find how to join ISDF, and only other information
about
ISDF is http://www.yqcomputer.com/

Thanks,
Serge



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Fast tracked features (was: My top five most annoying things about C++)

Post by devnul » Sun, 06 Jun 2004 01:07:14


Unfortunatly the ACCU website is long overdue for updating - it is
maintained by a small group of volunteers who have other pressures on
their time.

The ISDF was once a "special interest group" within the ACCU and was
an optional extra on membership. Up to 1996 (or thereabouts) it
published its own bi-annual newsletter. Since then, reporting on
standards activities has moved to the main ACCU publications (C Vu and
Overload). Hence there is no longer a separate SIG to join - but the
option to donate to a fund that supports standards activities is still
available to members.

As Francis indicates, there is a bi-monthly report on standards
activities - and on a less frequent basis feature articles on specific
issues.
Alan Griffiths (former editor of the ACCU's ISDF Newsletter)
http://www.yqcomputer.com/

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