Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Mark Jacob » Sat, 08 May 2004 21:19:42

The new development environments (dev env) may have bells and whistles coming out of their pores, but they
stink when it comes to performance.

C++, C, Delphi and assembler are the fastest on the block, and have been for ages. Now we are being herded
into slowsville with Java, .Net and C# - it's all slow *** rubbish and I won't subscribe to it.

But it sounds like you are happy with this situation. You would like to slow your IDE and apps by a factor of
10, to appease "future-proofness". However, we can see there is no stable platform for the future, and all the
big players are grubbing around for the next big buzzword to bring in the dosh. It simply won't do in a
technical profession to behave like this : and it is us, the programmers, who are responsible for vetting the
new developments put out by the big players, so we should be sneering at everything they have inflicted on us,
from unreliable mission-critical OS's that kill people (Airbus A320 initial fly-by-wire implementation), to
ideas that last no longer than 2 years before being replaced by the next, even slower buzzword technology.
(Sorry about the waffle).

We need a shining light to develop the next "Delphi". We need someone who cares whether someone is still
developing software using a 486 dx 66 PC, and who won't be swayed by threats of death if they continue, or
large sums of money if they stop. Someone like me. Personally I would write a new OS from scratch and have it
sit on any processor capable of handling 32-bits through an abstraction layer. This layer would be so thin as
to allow direct access to the hardware through its API. Overall, the design would be speed-motivated , and
have the ease of use for the programmer at heart (*NOT* the end user, because we programmers can cater for
them if our jobs are made easier).

VCL programmers all have flailing legs and arms at the moment. Perhaps we could form a user group which could
finance this new OS/dev env venture. Whaddya think? Perhaps we have all been dragged too far down this road to
slowsville. Perhaps the "dark forces" who control society globally, do not want people to unleash the true
power of the hardware they probably already have. So they make the underlying OS and dev env sluggish to
counter productivity that could publish *** truths all over the world. (paranoia is coming out now - but
it's true). :-)

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Graham Ree » Sat, 08 May 2004 21:25:30

Google. Why else would they have ump *** PhD of User Interface Design and
employ the guy who wrote the original Unix?

In five years time we will be cursing Google, and wishing Microsoft was



Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Andrue Cop » Sat, 08 May 2004 21:40:09

Hardware always gets faster. Any drop in performance will be temporary.
Today you can go to a web page that has a Java emulator of almost any 80's
home computer. The emulators for the Sinclair Spectrum (Z80) run so fast
that in all-stops-out-mode games are unplayable.

Let me put that another way:Today we can use Java to write a Z80 emulator
that is outrageously over speed. That means we can do the same with an 8086
emulator for sure. Probably we can do it for an 80286. Given another five
years we might see 80386 emulators running too fast. Hah - ideal as a
target platform for you perhaps?

No we don't. We need someone who isn't afraid of stretching the boundaries
and taking today's hardware beyond its design limits. Unless we push
today's hardware beyond its limits we'll never know what we want tomorrow's
hardware to do. The last thing we need is for developers to limit their
imagination to producing software that is compatible with obsolete
hardware. If we followed your doctrine we'd still all be looking at a text
mode, command line based interface and Pong would be the hottest thing in
computer *** .

Microsoft already did that. It's Windows NT. What do you think hal.dll is
used for?

There are several complaints I might lay at Borland or Microsoft's door but
pushing technology forward is not one of them. I say more power to them.

Oh and when you reply consider that the software I develop is for computer
forensics. It has to process vast amounts of data as quickly as possible
and provide searching facilities against it. One feature is generating MD5
checksums for every file then colouring objects in the file view based upon
their MD5 checkum and which databases it appears in. It does this against
the NSRL ( http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ) database without any noticeable
performance issues.

I /know/ that user-available computing power is rising so I know that
today's sluggish application will run like greased lightning tomorrow.
Andrue Cope
[Bicester UK]

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Mark Jacob » Sat, 08 May 2004 22:01:09

OK. Here is how I see it. In the very distant future, your forensics database will be global and contain info
on all earth inhabitants including slugs and snails. There will be cats on death row because your forensics
database lookup didn't complete - it was written in Java. However, if (and that's a big *IF*) you had written
it in C++, it wouldn't have a platform to run on, because the authorities have phased out power computing -
the global fascist state (United Nations uberalles) will be in control of all governments.

Try looking further ahead than just round the next corner.

P.S. Do you know John Teb *** at NIST - he worked on the genome project for a while? He now does proprietary
comms protocols for secret purposes (ooyah!).

P.P.S. I am not that serious - I just love to speculate.

P.P.P.S. Yellowstone Park is now owned by the UN - not the US (really, and that's now). They are putting out a
new international image for Yogi Bear and *** oo! Cheers,
Mark Jacobs
DK Computing

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Andrue Cop » Sat, 08 May 2004 22:19:32

I bet that'll push the subscription up :)

We try but things change so quickly. Part of the beauty of new hardware is
that it allows to play around. When on-the-fly look-ups of the NIST
database were first proposed we thought it was a ludicrous idea.

No. We are based in Britain and are just a subscriber to the database.

Well I wasn't entirely either. We do actually try to write efficient code -
I personally hate removing features and want my code to run on as wide a
platform as possible. I just don't believe in forgoing features just
because some people can't use them.

We are also very mindful of good design and good foundations as mentioned
in your other posting. The core of our suite is a DLL of which two of the
core classes (file I/O and device I/O) were designed back in 1991. It has
some flaws but I think I am qualified to engage in a debate on code
reusability since I was one of the two original implementors :)
Andrue Cope
[Bicester UK]

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Stepha » Sun, 09 May 2004 02:16:29

and what's wrong with pong???? ;-)

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Stepha » Sun, 09 May 2004 02:43:43

This is so true, but unfortunately gives rise to another issue.

Say a program was written that taxed the abilities of the average
computer of today, but would really shine on the average computer
in 2 years... isn't that about the time one would expect the next version
of the software to be released? (that is, if you're not Borland <g> )

Wouldn't this, in the long run, make a continuous cycle of software
that relied on <promised> future computing capabilities?

Don't get me wrong, I am not waxing in nostalgia over some box
currently residing at the bottom of a landfill, but I do think about the
"could have beens" and the trends shaping the technology base
used in computer hardware..

if you have time, and some interest, you might be amused by comparing
the technology / design used to connect peripherals in the original Atari
computer to the USB standard.

have fun


Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Borland » Sun, 09 May 2004 03:49:30

What if you go back to a Ferrari?

Robert Ehteshamzadeh (C++ QA)

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Bob » Sun, 09 May 2004 04:07:49

I don't believe anything Borland says.

"Robert Ehteshamzadeh (Borland QA)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Kenneth de » Sun, 09 May 2004 04:10:26

I swear I read " *** " at first glance. :)

(and I wouldn't be able to respond)

* this is not a sig *

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Kenneth de » Sun, 09 May 2004 04:11:26

Is that the price bracket for the new products? <g>

* this is not a sig *

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Boian Mito » Sun, 09 May 2004 04:31:41

Thank you for posting on these groups. We appreciate it. Borland has
ruined in the past the trust of the people here. The lack of response,
the very bad customer relation ship( Did I say bad? I mean disastrous!
). The insane corporate policy of constant secrecy and policemen, for
information leaks. The customer confidence is severely eroded, and it
will take long time to heal, but it can happen. Please keep up the good
work. Don't get frustrated by the hostile replies from some of us. The
fact is that the more hostile the replies are probably the more those
people care, and the more frustrated they are with what Borland has done
to them. Please work to resurrect Borland as once it was - the leader in
this type of technology, and the center of a happy users worship - the
Dreamland. I can't tell you how happy I am to discover that Borland has
finally figured out that the key to success is a good customer
relationship. May be they are not such morons there in the management
after all. Tell Dale, that if he pulls that one, I will post my picture
with him on my web site, and will advertise him as the best CEO of
Borland ;-) . Tell him also that I still hold some shares, and I will
get to vote for him eventually, so he better not *** this out ;-).
Duh... Forget it I have already told him that ;-) . I guess I was not
the only one. The last year I was sure it was my last Borland
conference. You are in about to convince me that I was wrong :-) . I may
see you guys during the next one, if you keep making the turnaround.
In any case. One more time. Thank you for being with us in this news
group. Thank you for being concerned. I also know some details about
what causes BCB 6 IDE to crash, so if you want to know how to force the
problems, and what is the potential work around, please feel free to
contact me at XXXX@XXXXX.COM . You are the first Borland guy who shows
interest in learning what's wrong with C++ Builder, and that means a lot
to me and I am sure to the rest of us in the newsgroups.
With best regards,
Boian Mitov

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Rodrigo Ge » Sun, 09 May 2004 05:55:07

> What if you go back to a Ferrari?

Oh! I just love the meaning! Or at least the idea I get from it... it's not
_that_ bad to dream, at the end...

Rodrigo Gez

"Robert Ehteshamzadeh (Borland QA)" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > escribien
>> What if you go back to a Ferrari? >> >> -- >> Robert Ehteshamzadeh (C++ QA)

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by Team » Sun, 09 May 2004 06:37:23


Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)

"#3 pencils and quadrille pads."
-- Seymoure Cray (1925-1996) when asked what CAD tools he used to design
the Cray I supercomputer; he also recommended using the back side of
the pages so that the lines were not so *** .

Why replace a Ferrari with a snail?

Post by David Erba » Sun, 09 May 2004 06:47:31

If what I've heard about Ferrari's is correct, it might also be
indicative of the reliability of the product...

David Erbas-White