[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by wes » Sun, 16 Oct 2005 14:59:51



Makes you wonder how much the rest of the ports system would be
cleaned up with a 'perl' category and all those p5-something-
something ports got tossed into that basket, doesn't it?


I don't know that 'productivity' really describes what these are. In
particular, I'm not sure if opengroupware adds productivity or
subtracts it. ;^) Ditto for eclipse, for that matter. A category
name that means 'big blobs of software with lots of options' might be
appropriate.


devel is one of several categories that has grown useless; www is
another. It's certainly worth thinking about a category that
actually makes sense for these large software systems like openoffice
and eclipse.


_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by linimo » Sun, 16 Oct 2005 15:14:23


I do _not_ recommend we attempt to do the 1688 (one thousand six hundred
eighty-eight) repocopies, even if anyone was insane enough to volunteer
to try to do so.

It would take months to sort through the damage to the depedency tree,
during which time the ports tree would effectively be broken. No matter
how much we tested it first, we would never get them all. And, of course,
we'd have to have the tree frozen to run the regression test, or the test
would become instantly obsolete the second we ran it.

Nothing to see here, folks. Move along.

mcl
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "

 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by nork » Sun, 16 Oct 2005 21:50:52

On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:14:59 +0900 (JST)


Oops, I missed. Eclipse is very similar to Emacs:
1. IDE
Emacs is a one of IDE(or platform). And anyone doesn't
think that it is ONLY a elisp interpreter. But it is
a editor. So I think that it is no problem that Eclipse
may be categolize to editors.

2. Extension-able
Emacs has many extention modules like news reader, language
support, games, ...

3. Mode
Emacs has many mode for descriptions like C, Perl, Java, ...

4. others
It must be that there are other similar feature:-).

java/eclipse -> editors/eclipse
java/eclipse-EPIC -> editors/eclipse-EPIC
java/eclipse-cdt -> editors/eclipse-cdt
java/eclipse-checkstyle -> devel/eclipse-checkstyle
java/eclipse-clay-core -> databases/eclipse-clay-core
java/eclipse-devel -> editors/eclipse-devel
java/eclipse-emf -> editors/eclipse-emf
java/eclipse-examples -> devel/eclipse-examples
java/eclipse-gef -> editors/eclipse-gef
java/eclipse-gef-examples -> editors/eclipse-gef-examples
java/eclipse-langpack -> editors/eclipse-langpack
java/eclipse-log4e -> editors/eclipse-log4e
java/eclipse-lomboz -> devel/eclipse-lomboz
java/eclipse-pmd -> devel/eclipse-pmd
java/eclipse-quantum -> databases/eclipse-quantum
java/eclipse-sqlexplorer -> databases/eclipse-sqlexplorer
java/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat -> www/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat
java/eclipse-uml -> editors/eclipse-uml
java/eclipse-v4all -> editors/eclipse-v4all
java/eclipse-vep -> editors/eclipse-vep
java/eclipse-vep-examples -> editors/eclipse-vep-examples
java/eclipse-viplugin -> editors/eclipse-viplugin
java/eclipseme -> devel/eclipseme
java/phpeclipse -> editors/phpeclipse
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by linimo » Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:28:30


[adding freebsd-java to the Cc:]

For some background, there's been on-and-off discussion on -java
about how the java category was never really a good idea. None of
the other languages have their own primary category. In particular
we've completely failed to train our users to send 'java' PRs only
for problems with the JVMs and 'ports' PRs for things in ports/java.


Well, Eclipse is one of these 'suites' that doesn't really fit well
in one particular category. You could make the same argument about
OpenOffice, opengroupware, ZendStudio, and so forth. (These 3 are
chosen deliberately because they're scattered in 3 different categories).

OpenBSD has a 'productivity' category although what it has in it is more
like our 'deskutils'. Perhaps we should consider co-opting that name?

(Our "deskutils" is a combination of things like calendar programs and
individual GNOME add-ons, so it's a little bit of a mixed bag. However,
I'm not sure I can see Eclipse fitting in with those).

There is also the fact to consider that at 1624 ports, devel is simply
too huge for its own good. Everything is in there including the
kitchen sink.

Even if we just went with an 'ide' category, there are still 27 ports
that would probably fit in there. Not a lot in my book (and I've always
been against anything that would lead us towards having hundreds of
categories), but I could see an argument for it, even so.

I'll leave the idea of completely reshuffling all the categories for
another time, since everyone is probably tired of listening to my own
particular views on that.

mcl
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by past » Sun, 16 Oct 2005 22:28:50


Although I agree with everything you say here, I can't see how this is
an argument against the fact that GEF and CDT most probably belong to
devel. Unless I'm mistaken and you were not making one?

Regarding the splitting of devel and www categories, perhaps we should
wait until the port tree migrates to subversion (yeah, right :-))?

Cheers,

Panagiotis
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by vizio » Mon, 17 Oct 2005 03:16:49

n Friday 14 October 2005 22:59, the author Wes Peters contributed to the
dialogue on-
Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports:



My solution is not popular even if it is logical.

I say the ports structure needs a strategy that takes account of the reality
of tools such as eclipse and soes not hesititate to create entirely new
categories to meet those new neeeds. When the ports tree logic was defined
(long ago in comparative computer history) it structure fitted well.

We now need something like
ports/eclipse
where all the tools that form part of the eclipse fremework can be grouped
together.

But this view does not dit well with those who feel there is a virtue in
preserving the existing structure which I cannot help but regard as an
anachronism for these newly emerging frameworks which do not fit well into
the traditional structure.

david

--
40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus.
Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after
completing engineroom refit.
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by wes » Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:00:50


I was making an argument that regardless of where eclipse migrates
too, all of it's little pieces should go right along with it, rather
than getting spread all over the ports system.


Or hell freezes over, whichever happens first?

_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by linimo » Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:01:31


/me does a poll to see how many people want to do 500-1000 repocopies.
Hands? Anyone?

mcl
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by past » Mon, 17 Oct 2005 21:01:45

es Peters wrote:

Since you snipped Mark's reply in your quote, let me clarify that my
comments above were directed to Mark and I agree with your point.
However I'm not sure whether there has to be a strict rule that every
eclipse-foo port should go in the same category. Perhaps the emacs
precedent should be followed. See below.


Norikatsu Shigemura wrote:
> On Sat, 15 Oct 2005 09:14:59 +0900 (JST)
> Norikatsu Shigemura < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:
>
>>Hi eclipse and eclipse related ports maintainers and users!
>> Some time ago, someone suggested that eclipse and eclipse
>> related ports should be located on proper categories. I
>> think so. So I suggest following repocopy list. Anyone,
>> do you have any idea?
>
>
> Oops, I missed. Eclipse is very similar to Emacs:
> 1. IDE
> Emacs is a one of IDE(or platform). And anyone doesn't
> think that it is ONLY a elisp interpreter. But it is
> a editor. So I think that it is no problem that Eclipse
> may be categolize to editors.
>
> 2. Extension-able
> Emacs has many extention modules like news reader, language
> support, games, ...
>
> 3. Mode
> Emacs has many mode for descriptions like C, Perl, Java, ...
>
> 4. others
> It must be that there are other similar feature:-).
>
> java/eclipse -> editors/eclipse
> java/eclipse-EPIC -> editors/eclipse-EPIC
> java/eclipse-cdt -> editors/eclipse-cdt
> java/eclipse-checkstyle -> devel/eclipse-checkstyle
> java/eclipse-clay-core -> databases/eclipse-clay-core
> java/eclipse-devel -> editors/eclipse-devel
> java/eclipse-emf -> editors/eclipse-emf
> java/eclipse-examples -> devel/eclipse-examples
> java/eclipse-gef -> editors/eclipse-gef
> java/eclipse-gef-examples -> editors/eclipse-gef-examples
> java/eclipse-langpack -> editors/eclipse-langpack
> java/eclipse-log4e -> editors/eclipse-log4e
> java/eclipse-lomboz -> devel/eclipse-lomboz
> java/eclipse-pmd -> devel/eclipse-pmd
> java/eclipse-quantum -> databases/eclipse-quantum
> java/eclipse-sqlexplorer -> databases/eclipse-sqlexplorer
> java/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat -> www/eclipse-sysdeo-tomcat
> java/eclipse-uml -> editors/eclipse-uml
> java/eclipse-v4all -> editors/eclipse-v4all
> java/eclipse-vep -> editors/eclipse-vep
> java/eclipse-vep-examples -> editors/eclipse-vep-examples
> java/eclipse-viplugin -> editors/eclipse-viplugin
> java/eclipseme -> devel/eclipseme
> java/phpeclipse -> editors/phpeclipse

This sounds fine, too.


Cheers,

Panagiotis
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by marqui » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 01:28:09

Vizion < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >

Honestly David, until you can make a better case your solution
doesn't seem logical either.


Before doing that you really need to define what constitutes a port
category i.e, a set of rules which can universally applied. This
definition would need to encompass all ports, not just the one
you're concerned about today, and do so in a way that is
self-evident and at has some consensus among port maintainers.


That would be the worst solution I could think of, but thanks for
making your special interest clear. We can see by this it is a
religious issue and the integrity of the ports collection is less
important than your particular application. Since you are not
similarly advocating ports/netbeans or ports/emacs the proposition
is logically indefensible.


You've outlined several possible frameworks where there's really
only room for one. Choose wisely.

[ ] existing
[ ] emerging
[ ] traditional
[ ] structure

--
Roger Marquis
Roble Systems Consulting
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by vizio » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 05:51:55

e: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports
From: Vizion < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >
To: XXXX@XXXXX.COM
CC: Panagiotis Astithas < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Wes Peters < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,=20
XXXX@XXXXX.COM , XXXX@XXXXX.COM , XXXX@XXXXX.COM ,=20
XXXX@XXXXX.COM , Norikatsu Shigemura < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,=20
XXXX@XXXXX.COM , XXXX@XXXXX.COM , Mark Linimon=20
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, XXXX@XXXXX.COM
=20
On Sunday 16 October 2005 03:20, =A0the author Panagiotis Astithas contribu=
ted=20
to the dialogue on-
=A0Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports:=20

bly
o,
e,
n't
ipse
guage
a, ...
pse
IC
cdt
=2Dcore
vel
emf
gef
es
ck
g4e
antum
lorer
uml
all
vep
es
in
se
Sounds crazy to me...
Scattering eclipse tools over the whole ports collections is, to my mind, a=
=20
retrograde, rather than a positive step. There are another 290 pus eclipse=
=20
tools to bring on board!!
I would continue to advocate for a single collection
david=20

=2D-=20
40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Tauru=
s.
=A0Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal af=
ter=20
completing engineroom refit.
=2D-=20
40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Tauru=
s.
Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal afte=
r=20
completing engineroom refit.
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by herve.quir » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 07:35:35


We already discussed this matter some time ago. And the discussion just
died by itself IIRC. You keep telling us about the "290 eclipse tools"
that exist all around the world but what I just see:

$ ls /usr/ports/java | grep eclipse | wc -l
--> 24

So we are speaking of 24 ports here. Nothing close to 290 if you ask me.

Besides, you keep whining about the poor philosophy behind the whole
ports framework and speaking of the closed-mind of its developers who
cannot see the "pure true genious solution" that you suggested. I don't
really think this will encourage people to try and understand your
approach.

Fine. As it was the case with the latest discussion we had on the
subject, I think I'll just find another way to spend my time and energy
(shooting PRs or discussing and fixing the existing framework).

Herve
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by vizio » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:44:12

n Sunday 16 October 2005 03:20, the author Panagiotis Astithas contributed
to the dialogue on-
Re: [SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports:

Sounds crazy to me...
Scattering eclipse tools over the whole ports collections is, to my mind, a
retrograde, rather than a positive step. There are another 290 pus eclipse
tools to bring on board!!
I would continue to advocate for a single collection
david

--
40 yrs navigating and computing in blue waters.
English Owner & Captain of British Registered 60' bluewater Ketch S/V Taurus.
Currently in San Diego, CA. Sailing bound for Europe via Panama Canal after
completing engineroom refit.
_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-java
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by wes » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 21:44:21


That's exactly the point I was (and am) trying to argue against. I
have to resort to 'make search' to find emacs tools these days
because they've been thrown all over the ports system by well-meaning
but misguided contributors, and I'd hate to see that happen to
eclipse tools too.

As to devel vs. editors, eclipse is hardly a text editor. Emacs at
least started that way.

_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "
 
 
 

[SUGGEST] Reform eclipse and eclipse related ports

Post by achil » Tue, 18 Oct 2005 22:17:59

O Wes Peters Oct 16, 2005 :



Perhaps i missed something,
but why all that bother with eclipse, when (at least) all the
java add-ons for it are easily managed by the tool itself?

For possible JNI eclipse plugins (if any) a port definately
makes sense but for the majority (java) i think the community
over engineers the case instead of working on more vital issues
of the operation system.

I am not quoting directly any of the fellows participating in the
discussion, i just grabbed the last email to write my lines.


--
-Achilleus

_______________________________________________
XXXX@XXXXX.COM mailing list
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
To unsubscribe, send any mail to " XXXX@XXXXX.COM "