ILS with Radar

ILS with Radar

Post by Amy » Tue, 15 Mar 2005 22:23:50


Hi,

I'm just learning how to do ILS approaches. There is a lot of excellant
information on ILS's with the standard marker beacons to study from,
but not so much on "radar" type landing systems. After a lot of misses
and go arounds... I've sort of figured out how to catch the glide slope
by using the GPS waypoint markers for radar. And I see you still have
to have the proper frequency for the LOC.

I was wondering if anyone knows how these work in real flying? Is
there another instrument in the *** pit, besides using the GPS for
finding the marker points?

Thank you for your time.

Amy

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ILS with Radar

Post by RobertV » Wed, 16 Mar 2005 02:30:48


Aviation maps show the radials from two VORs for intersections. You will
need the paper maps or a digital image of the map downloaded over the
internet to utilize intersections using the radio navigation beacons.
Some maps might show DME readings betwen the intersection and one or
more of the VORs.

Tune the two NAV radios to the frequencies for the VORs. If your
aircraft is equiped with Omni Bearing Indicators (OBIs) set them for the
radials shown on the map. When the needles are centered on both OBIs you
have reached the intersection.

If your aircraft is equiped with a Horizintal Situation Indicator (HSI)
set the HSI course for the radial you will be following to reach the
intersection. Set the RMI to show the bearing for the other VOR. Many
RMIs feature switches on the lower corners for selecting the NAV or ADF
receivers, you will need to set the switch for the NAV(VOR) function. As
you follow the radial on the HSI watch the arrow on the RMI to point to
the bearing for the other VOR shown on the map.

As you prepare to land make sure the audio panel on the radio stack is
set to make the marker (MKR) beacons audible. Operate the switch on the
audio panel to iluminate the MKR light. With the marker beacon audible
you will be able to hear the markers as you overfly them. The approach
plate will show the desired altitude at the Final Approach Fix (FAF).
Level off before you reach the FAF and start your descent when the first
OBI or the HSI indicate that you have reached the glide slope.

 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by Phillip Wi » Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:20:31

on't know anything about the "radar". You use the Localizer (left-right)
of the ILS to get "centered". In many cases there is a VOR or NDB futher
out from the runnway that you fly to first which puts you close to where you
need to be. Approach maps will show you this along with the altitude you
need to be at. Being at the right altitude is almost as important the rest
of the positioning. If you are too high you can not get it down to the right
altitude in the amount of time and distance you have to do it in.

As far as the SIM is concerned, the right way to hit the Localizer is to fly
at about 30deg off from it so that you intersect it. Then when the needle
starts to swing to the middle start turning into the proper heading and hold
the needle in the center. This is pretty much what the ATC in the Sim does
with you.

You need to be far enough away from the airport that you are slightly below
the slope. Fly level until the pointer starts to come down. Back off the
trottle and tweek the trottle and trim so that you keep the pointer centered
and stay at the proper approach speed.

If you use the autopilot, then use the same method of 30deg into the
Localizer and slightly below the Slope. When the needle first starts to
swing to the middle, click the approach button on the AP. The AP will
follow the ILS right down to the runway. As you cross the threshold,
shutoff the autopilot and cut the trottle to idle, land manually. If you
leave the AP on the plane may try to lift off again as the needle goes back
up once you pass the ILS Transmitter

Do not use the AP to control speed, handle the trottle manually. It is not
as smart as the real thing and as soon as you shutdown the AP at the
threshhold the trottle will take off at whatever it was last set at which
may cause the plane to start climbing out.

--

Phillip Windell [MCP, MVP, CCNA]
www.wandtv.com


"RobertVA" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...


 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by Paul Rile » Wed, 16 Mar 2005 06:44:34


<snip>

If you are referring to ILS approach plates that say "Radar Required", it is
referring to ground based radar facilities. Look at those approach plates
carefully (a good example is KDFW). You should notice that there are no
procedure turns shown, which means they are not authorized. The only way to
get lined up for the approach at those airfields is via radar vectors to the
final localizer intercept heading. Marker beacons may or may not be
available. When not available, you should find some kind of DME fix for the
FAF (Final Approach Fix).

HTH,
Paul
 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by me » Wed, 16 Mar 2005 09:23:28

i amy,

don't know if you've seen this post before, if not give er' a spin. have
fun !
try this :

up> to> .> bottom.> plane> > the> > wa> >> > plane is pointing> >> > the knob in the lower left is for direction that the runway is heading.

s> >> > roll that until yellow arrow in the HSI is pointing to the top or 004>.
> th>s> > > will be the last time you touch that knob.(runway headin>)> >>>> > > now on the HSI you might have noticed when you activated 109.50 on
rad>o> > > stack in NAV1 that 2 yellow triangles appeared on each side of the H>I> > > towards the top. those are the Glideslope Indicators(meaning as plane
si>s> > > on runway,it is below the glideslope). we'll call them GSI. and we'll
ca>l> > > glideslope G>.> >>>> > > ok: we now have altitude in at 2400' and turned >n> > > we now have VS set to 80>'> > > we now have 109.50 set in NA>1> > > we now have runway36 heading of 004set in HSI with runway head>n>
> > arr>w>
> > we now have heading bug ran up to 004(or there abouts)in HSI,>n>w
> > turn on HDG switch on bottom of radio st>c>.
> > NOTE:the only switches turned on at this time are the HDG and>A>T
> > switches on bottom of radio st>c>.
> > we will use auto pilot, BUT NOT YE> >! >>>>
> > now all you need to do is to roll down runway 36 and get plane
airbo>ne.
> > will leave landing gear down for now. and put flaps full. 2 less things> > > worry about>:>) >>>>
> > ok, full throttle and get plane airbo>n>. >>>>
> > once you have plane stabilized hit the "Z" key on your keyboard (o> >P
> > switch on bottom of radio stack).this will turn on autopilot. you sh>uld
>>n>w
> > be flying hands off and plane should be on runway heading of >04
> (up>i>d)> > > that' the last time you are going to use manual controls. you will now> > > full autopilot all the way to gr>u>d.> > > continue to fly heading 004till you are about 1000' altitude, no> >oll
> > heading bug knob with cursor till it is on heading 090- or E>o> the
> > HSI(crosswind leg).plane will make a 90turn t> >ig>t>
> >
> > continue to fly heading 090till altitude 2000'. now roll he>ding bu> >> with
> > cursor to 180-or S on the HSI (downwind leg).plane will make > >0 turn
> > toward right. on downwind leg airport will be on your right.y>u>are in a
> > right hand traffic pattern. just past abeam tower GS arrows will>a>pear
on
> > the bottom of the HSI. plane should be around 2400' at around 1>5>ts.
and
> > you still haven't touched any manua> >on>r>ls.
> >
> > as you get toward the 'fat' end of ILS feather the GSI arrows>will >t>rt
> to
> > climb. this is good ! still at 2400' on a 1>0> h>a>ing.
> >
> > BRING UP "GPS" - fly past airport PA43 toward the end of the I>S> feather.
> > once past airport PA43 and the GSI arrows are toward th> >op of the
> > HSI,roll heading bug with cursor to heading 270or W (ba>e>leg)on the
> > HSI.plane will now make a 90tow>r> t>e>right.
> >
> > after rolling heading bug to 270go to bottom of radio sta>k>and turn
on
> > the APR switch. now you should have 3 switches turned o> the bot>o> of
> radio
 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by Amy » Fri, 18 Mar 2005 05:23:48

Thank you all for your tips and taking time to answer my question on
this.

I've only been flying a month or two and just getting into instrument
navigation. I'm getting pretty successful with VOR's etc. ILS for me
is brand new. I guess it has just been dumb luck and coincidence that
the ILS runways I've been practicing on were not this "Radar Required"
business. I'm starting to find more of them, as I try different
airports.

As you mentioned, I believe what was throwing me off, were OM's without
the lights and whistles to remind you to get ready for the glide slope.
I'm now paying more attention to the navigation needles.

Thanks again,

Amy

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ILS with Radar

Post by me » Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:59:13

you're welcome amy,

after having fs2004 a couple years now (graduated from fs2002),

i'm just starting to play with the GPS final approach vectors. i find ILS a
little easier, but GPS is good for a runway that doesn't have an ILS
frequency. So if you use your VSR in GPS and final approach vectors, you can
pretty much find the threshold of the runway and wing er' on in from there
:-).

i still learn something new pretty much every time i use fs2004, pretty
cool !!!!!!!
 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by Amy » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 02:02:49

Hi me,

I have used the GPS on non instrument runways too.

I agree, the VSR feature is a pretty cool option that comes with the
GPS.

I actually printed out on an Excel Spreadsheet, the conversions from
feet per seconds to feet per minutes from the VSR window on the GPS. So
you can use the Vertical Speed Gauge on the *** pit dashboard. It works
pretty good if you can maintain an even speed. I found on some runways
though, the GPS VSR will place you half way down the runway. So I round
off to the next higher vertical fpm speed. IE: if the slope calls for
-925, I round off to -1000 fpm on the gauge.

I'm practicing with the VHF meters too. Some really small airports
don't even have GPS approaches, let alone ILS.

Amy

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ILS with Radar

Post by me » Sun, 20 Mar 2005 15:47:50

way to go !

when is your insructor book going to be available ? :-)
 
 
 

ILS with Radar

Post by Amy » Tue, 22 Mar 2005 21:09:23


Ha! I've only been flying for a couple of months. I'm afraid the
virtual skyways would be laced with horror and mayham if someone
follows me.

The VSR on the GPS did help me to learn decents, angles and speeds for
approaches though, especially when trying different kinds of airplanes.


Amy

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