DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Ken Moiart » Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:13:47

Well guys, I finally found my 'holy grail' robot to physically automate
CD/DVD disc spanning for backup purposes. No I'm not talking about one of
those office copier sized machines that only institutions can get enough use
out of to get a return on their institutional sized investment. However, it
does come from that "industrial/institutional" category. Yet it is the
first of such products I've seen that a consumer like myself could talk
myself into buying (admittedly, though, with my eyes closed) It's the MF
Digital Baxter Automated CD DVD Duplicator. But it doesn't just duplicate
or make disc copies. It's primarily what's they call an "autodisc loader".
It can be used in any of many different ways, including spanning DVD discs
for backup data. And the price is an almost down to earth $839.00.
Admittedly more than most large hard drives are sold for today. But for
that price you can't backup to tape cartridge of much quanitity. It holds
up to 25 discs at a time, robotically moving discs into and out of write
drives as needed. That's roughly 115 GB (or if you use DVD-R dual layer or
DVD+R double-layer discs, approximately 210 GB) per unattended backup
session. I would personally have no problem reloading the unit with fresh
discs as often as two or three or more times if necessary, to backup all
hard drive images in my computer to DVD-RW, DVD-RAM or whatever. I could
load up and start the backup process before I leave for work. Come home
after work and repeat the process. Do the same at bedtime (if still
necessary by now) to complete the backup. (I don't know if it can write to
BD disks, but if it and/or when it does, once BD disc prices become
affordable the 25 disc capacity will no longer pose any potential mild
inconvenience whatsoever, and total backups to DVD will be able to routinely
started and completed automatically according to schedule with only the most
infrequent and briefest of human intervention.)
I would still use a large external hard drive for completely hands off
routine nightly backup of course. But every few weeks at most I could do
this redundant DVD backup as well for a complementary kind of redundancy not
far from totally secure data backup. And I could even easily make automated
disk copies of my backup DVDs for even more backup redundancy. Hence, for
the first time I could consider what gets stored in my computer to be safer
from loss than that which I presently print paper hard copies of so as to
file in a physical filing cabinet (e.g. banking transactions, software
purchases, etc...etc...).

Heres the link: http://www.yqcomputer.com/


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Rod Spee » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:41:53

en Moiarty < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:

Yep, so hard drives make more sense.

Yep, tape has passed its useby date for the backup
of personal desktop systems. Replaced by hard drives.

$839 buys a lot of 300G hard drives.

Those are pretty lousy value per GB,

Makes a lot more sense to write to a couple of 300G drives instead.

Thats always true when a hard drive is used instead.

Cant see the point of spending $839 for that myself.

You dont need a changer for that stuff, just a normal DVD burner.

No thanks, lousy value.


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Beemer Bik » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 05:48:43

Ken Moiarty" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in message
news: XXXX@XXXXX.COM ...

I "think" i work for a leading edge tech company, and we use tapes, and have
a autotape hopper that holds a bunch of tapes, and we recently upgraded to a
bigger and better tape device that works off a virtual tape (bunch of
disks). I dont think we would use dvd for a number of reasons chiefly
reliability and security. Cost would be pretty low on the pole. We also
have terrabytes to backup.

I was looking at using dvd for my own personal backups, at work and at home.
I ran some tests on those new dual layer dvd's and was very disappointed. I
would get a few errors at the conclusion of an 8.5gb or so dvd write. I was
just using the latest nero (not a dedicated backup program) and depending on
what burner I used (pioneer A08, BenQ 1655, 1620). What is strange is
that more often than not, it was a false error. I was able do copy the zip
or zips off the dvd backup and test them and they would be fine. The
reliability is not there. Plus one would not normally backup zips and stuff
that if a sector was damaged, one of the files might be extractable. A real
backup program would do a better job.


As ron mentioned, you could get a bunch of big drives for that price.
Question: What if the data you were backing up was worth, say $10 million
in lost manhours? How comfortable would you feel with an under 1k package?


http://ResearchRiders.org Ask about my 99'R1100RT


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by cdl » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:05:01

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,

Minor practical problem: since all DVDs look alike, except perhaps for a
slight difference on one side between recorded and blank, how do you propose
to keep all of your backups organized?

You are lost in a twisty maze of DVDs, all alike.

carl lowenstein marine physical lab u.c. san diego

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Rod Spee » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 09:09:33

arl Lowenstein < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:

Just serial number the DVDs and keep track
of the first and last used in a particular backup.

Not a shred of rocket science required at all.

Fraid not.


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Ken Moiart » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 12:43:34

That problem is addressed by the fact that this machine automatically prints
a label on each disk. I'm assuming only, however, that there is software
that would keep track of and label each disc appropriately for backup


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Mike Redro » Thu, 23 Mar 2006 20:01:21

Hard drives can't be expected to survive a drop from the desk,
tapes and DVDs will. Mishandling is more common in personal
desktop systems.

Those drives would have to be well cooled and well shock
mounted to rival the durability of tapes (or DVDs)

Is there a decent shockproof hard disk enclosure
or caddy ? One that can survive drops from the desk?


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Trevo » Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:22:33

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 11:01:21 GMT, "Mike Redrobe" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >

The bigger question might be, why are you dropping hard drives off of
your desk? Maybe a bigger desk or more organization is the key. At any
rate, that's yet another reason why I advocate backing up to one or
more internal drives. Even if you're a total klutz, you probably
aren't knocking your entire PC off of your desk, making "shockproof" a

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Rod Spee » Fri, 24 Mar 2006 03:24:11

Mike Redrobe < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote

Then dont drop it.

Not hard to have the drive in something that isnt readily dropped.

Wrong on the cooling when they arent powered up.

Yep, one of the decent external cases inside one of
those padded containers usually used for cameras etc.

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Mike Redro » Fri, 24 Mar 2006 06:55:19

Trolling aside, any removeable media has to be reasonably
physically robust. HDDs generally aren't.

Removeable media (tapes) regularly experience more shock than media
not designed for that i.e. HDDs


DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Rod Spee » Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:03:14

It isnt hard to make them reasonably physically robust.

It isnt hard to make the HDDs as robust.

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Trevo » Fri, 24 Mar 2006 07:27:53

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 21:55:19 GMT, "Mike Redrobe" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >

My question wasn't meant as a troll, so I apologize for not being more
clear. I still don't see why you're as concerned as you obviously are
about physical robustness. Specifically, what kinds of events are you
trying to protect against, and in your opinion how likely are they to

So after all of that, you agree now that HDD's are the better way to
go? I can no longer tell where you're at on this subject.

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Rod Spee » Sat, 25 Mar 2006 03:51:43

Rod Speed < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote

And with a PERSONAL DESKTOP SYSTEM, do you really need
that sort of brute force backup of the entire drive contents to DVDs
anyway ? The only thing that will produce the volume needed to
consume 50 or so DVDs is stuff like digital photos or video. It makes
a lot more sense to write that stuff to a pair of DVDs on different
physical media once its been created and not mindlessly attempt
to write the entire contents of the hard drives to DVDs repeatedly.

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by alan » Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:08:39



This does make sense.

I'm amazed.

DVD changers for burners??? [revisited]

Post by Ken Moiart » Sun, 26 Mar 2006 07:38:49

Glad to see someone else out there can see the forest for the trees, as it
were. :)

Admittedly this machine (or others like it) is neither a panacea for
everyone nor is it anywhere nearly practical enough as an image backup
system to seriously consider an alternative to backup hard drive. (My
apologies to some here for my clumsiness if I appeared to convey something
otherwise.) But it IS certainly something that should come in very handy;
if not merely for reasons similar (but, of course, reciprocal) to why
automatic disc changers in CD and DVD players have proven so popular.