Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by CHARLES PR » Wed, 13 Aug 2003 10:24:34


Does anyone know how to set up a 4-up consecutive brochure in PageMaker 7.0?
I'm having a problem setting up the dimensions for the pages so that once I
invoke the Build Booklet plugin, it will print the brochure on a standard
page (11 x 8.5). Any help will be greatly appreciated.

-Charles
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Sun, 17 Aug 2003 10:26:18

Charles,

I think the source of the problem is that you are saying "4-up" when you
don't really mean that.

I've got my Karnak turban on at the moment (and I'm a couple of glasses
of wine into the evening); so please forgive me if my attempt at
mindreading isn't working. What I think you mean, though, is that you
want to end up with four 5.5 x 8.5 pages on the two sides of a single
8.5 x 11 sheet of paper. That's a 4-pp brochure, not a 4-up brochure.

The way you do it is as Lyn suggested. Start with a publication in which
you have defined a page size of 5.5 x 8.5 inches (tall). Create your
four pages, 1-4.

Then run Build Booklet, 2-up, saddle-stitch.

Build Booklet will correctly compute that your sheet size is 8.5 x 11
(wide) and will put pages 4 and 1 on the front of the sheet and pages
2-3 on the back of the sheet, so that when you fold it, page 1 will be
in the front and page 4 will be in the back.

Is that what you want to do, or did you have something else in mind?

Dick

 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by CHARLES PR » Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:04:20

Dick & Lynn,
I implemented your instructions and they worked. To the both of you,
I'm greatful for that accomplished feat, but it was not my ultimate goal.
To help explain what I'm attempting to accomplish; when you go to Utilities,
Plugins, Build-Booklet, and the Build-Booklet window comes up. At this
point you will see your pages listed and the page size. In the layout
drop-down window, click on the very last selection which is "4-up
consecutive", select it, and notice how the paper size change. My ulitimate
goal is the have the 4 page document printed in the "4-up consecutive"
selection on a stardard sheet of paper.
As always, any all help will be greatly appreciated.

- Charles
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Mon, 18 Aug 2003 22:12:22

Charles,

1. What sheet size are you printing on, in inches? "Standard" has many
meanings.

2. How many pages is your document?

3. What is the size of a single page of the intended final piece, in inches?

Dick
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by CHARLES PR » Wed, 20 Aug 2003 07:34:27

Dick,
The document consists of 4 pages. When I say "standard" I mean 8.5 x
11, I would like intended final piece to be on a 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper.
Thanks for any and all assistance.

-Charles



inches?

you,
goal.
Utilities,
ulitimate
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Wed, 20 Aug 2003 08:50:33

Charles,

In that case, just follow the directions Lyn and I both gave you and you
will be successful. What seems to be the remaining difficulty?

Dick
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Sun, 24 Aug 2003 02:29:27


Sure. Go to a bindery and ask questions.

But to answer your question, suppose you have a 32-page document. If you
select 2-up saddle-stitch, you will get 16 spreads. The first will
contain pages 1 and 32. The second will contain pages 2 and 31. Etc.

If you pick 4-up consecutive (something I have not actually experimented
with so I may be interpreting this incorrectly), I think you will get
eight 4-page signatures. So pages 1 and 4 will be together, pages 2 and
3 will be together, pages 5 and 8 will be together, pages 6 and 7 will
be together. At least that's what I would initially guess. A bit of
testing should answer the question to your satisfaction.
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Sun, 24 Aug 2003 20:47:18

arek Williams wrote:

I'd call it 2-up, but I don't know what the Build Booklet plug-in would
call it. However, for clarity, and in real life, I would probably use an
imposition dummy sheet and a direct conversation with the stripper to
ensure that we were on the same page, so to speak. This is really a
conversation that would happen inside a printing plant and shouldn't
much concern the customer. There are different solutions in different
circumstances.

Suppose you go to a printer with a 336-page publication that you want
perfect-bound. And, given your page size and the printer's press size,
you will have 32-page signatures. Okay, you have 10 full signatures,
with 16 pages left over. And suppose you adamantly refuse to have any
blank pages at the front or back of the book. What's the printer to do
with your 16 extra pages. He wants to run a consistent sheet size on one
press, because this is just more efficient than cutting the paper down
and printing one small signature on a smaller press or resetting the
large press for the smaller sheet. So he is going to run the 16 pages
2-up on a sheet, print half as many sheets, and cut the sheet after
printing (but before folding).

Okay, what does that mean? Well, your standard 32-page signature has 16
pages on the front and 16 pages on the back, in 4x4 arrangements. When
you stand looking at the sheet, the row of four pages nearest you is
right-side-up; the next row is upside-down; and the next two rows are
also arranged head-to-head. To see how this works, take a sheet of
paper; fold it the way a folder folds it (you need to know a bit about
bindery work to make all the folds in the right direction), number the
pages, then unfold the sheet.

So what do we do about the 16-page signature. Well, one way is to do
what you suggest: lay out 16 pages on half the sheet and repeat the
arrangement on the other half of the sheet. So, looking at the printed
sheet, the left half and the right half would look the same. But this
requires making two negatives for each page and two printing plates,
each of which will run half as many copies as the other signatures in
the book. The printer doesn't want to absorb these extra costs, and he
knows from experience that he'll never convince you to pay for them. So
what he does is called work-and-turn. All sixteen pages are arranged on
a single form so that when one side is printed, the printed sheets are
turned over (left-to-right) and printed again with the same plate. Then
the sheets are cut into two 16-page signatures. (In other circumstances
there is also work-and-tumble, in which the sheets are flipped
front-to-back when they are turned over, but this doesn't apply here.)

Is that clear as mud?

Well your

 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Dick Margu » Wed, 27 Aug 2003 20:37:54


[big snip]

Okay, now you've explained yourself, Marek; and I, at least, know what
you are aiming for.

You are printing 5.5 x 8.5 sheets duplex (just means page 2 is on the
back of page 1), and you want to print these sheets 2-up on letter
paper, then cut them.

The key misunderstanding you are having is that everyone is assuming you
want a folded sheet, which does not happen to be the case.

I don't know whether Quite Imposing will do this, but if you write
directly to Aandi Inston ( XXXX@XXXXX.COM ) to ask him whether the
product will do this, just forward this description to him, and I am
certain that (a) he will understand what you are trying to do and (b) he
will give you an honest answer about whether his software can do it.

If not, then here is another approach. Put together a PageMaker script
(you may need some help with this, which I suspect you can get in this
group), that works like this:

First, you create a publication that is letter paper wide (landscape),
single-sided. You set the margins so that the right margin is whatever
your desired outside margin is PLUS 5.5 inches. Lay out your book as
normal, with consecutive pages, inside the margins.

Then invoke a script that does this (or you could do it easily enough
manually if you just page through the book and do a few keystrokes per
page):

1. Select All
2. Power Paste (i.e., paste back in the same place--Ctrl-Alt-V)
3. Add 5.5 inches to the horizontal position (manually, use the Control
Palette for this)
4. PageDn
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by pdan » Thu, 28 Aug 2003 11:04:35

For clarity, your desired layout would be termed Two-Up Sheetwise.
Microsofts print boxes have this option, and I seen it in Quarks print
dialog, although not with this correct term.
 
 
 

Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Sherry - P » Fri, 29 Aug 2003 02:29:36

ver 12 years in the business and I never have heard the term "Sheetwise"
before. We always just called two of the same thing on a page... "2-up"
like Marek does.

Is there a terminology list somewhere? I hate not knowing everything. (hehe)

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Help In Creating a 4-up Consecutive Brochure

Post by Sherry - P » Sun, 31 Aug 2003 02:54:27

> From: Marek Williams < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >

"Duplex" is what I select when I want 2 sided printing from my
printer/copier... As far as I know, it has nothing to do with how many up
on a sheet print out.

It royally ticks me off that InDesign doesn't have this as a built in
feature like PageMaker does.

For really large books, I will pdf the document and place the pages in a new
InDesign document in full printer spreads. If I do have to make changes, I
make them in the original design file and just make sure the resulting pdf
has the same file name (archive the first pdf of course). When InDesign
reopens, I can update the links with nary a problem.

If you do this frequently, I suggest you create dummy pdfs (all they would
have is "page 1, page 2, etc." in the middle of each page) with your desired
number of pages and make your own imposed InDesign templates. That way when
you want to create an imposed document, open as a new file and replace with
your pdf of choice. The pages will update to the correct spread.

Dumb trick, but hey, even the simplest tricks are brilliant if they save you
TIME :)

Found a terminology list. Try here :)

http://www.yqcomputer.com/

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