Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Super Spin » Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:02:19


Why is it that when one runs a Java app (on Windows, at least), the
stupid and annoying Sun Java2 system tray applet pops up a message
balloon saying, "Wheeee!!! You've just started a Java app!! Aren't
you lucky and aren't I special?!?!?!" I see this with java web applets
(like chatroom apps), and I assume it happens for Java desktop apps as
well.

(Note: The actual balloon message is "Java(TM) 2 Platform - Visit us
for more information at: http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ".)

So annoying. Whenever I see that messaage come up I think to myself,
"Yeah? Well who gives a damn," and immediately dismiss it. Does any
other language or its VM insist on announcing its presence? I've run
apps written in C, C++, C#, Lisp (compiled), Objective C, and VB and
none of them felt the need to announce what language they were written
in. This is yet another reason that Java sucks on the desktop. Java
wants its apps to be seen as some kind of "special" app to the user,
when all this behavior does is remind the user that the app is not a
first class citizen as far as the underlying OS platform is concerned.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by noon » Thu, 24 Feb 2005 16:16:51

"Super Spinner" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > scribbled on the stall wall:

you know what happens when you "assume", right?

In short, no, this isn't the normal behavior of java. What release are
you using? Up thru 1.4.x I haven't seen the behavior you mention.

java classname

from a dos-box should simply instantiate the java class without any
special bells and whistles.

If 1.5 has added the behavior you are seeing then there is most probably
a controlpanel option to disable that behavior.

Of course, since you are using windoze, all bets are off...



----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.yqcomputer.com/ The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----

 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Elte » Thu, 24 Feb 2005 18:07:50


No, it doesn't. In fact, unless it invokes some native api call, Java has no
means of putting an icon in a system tray. The icon is put there by a _plugin_
of a particular _browser_.

Ergo, there are a couple of solutions:
1. Tell the plugin not to show the icon.
2. Use some "friendlier" browser.


Nah, it's not Java. It's your computer (il)literacy. Which is nothing to be
ashamed of, btw. Nobody was born knowledgeable. There is, however, an attitude
issue. Yours is very bad.

> Java
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Bruce Lewi » Thu, 24 Feb 2005 23:24:02

"Super Spinner" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:


Web applets are to be treated as untrusted. The "Wheeee!!!" message
(different from the message I get; I like yours better) alerts you that
the window about to pop up came to you from the web, in case it's a
dialog box that says, "Workstation has been locked. Please enter the
administrator password" or something like that.

Desktop apps are implicitly trusted, so you won't get the same warning.

--

http://www.yqcomputer.com/
Sign up today for a 7-day free trial.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Super Spin » Fri, 25 Feb 2005 06:21:48

So you're saying that whenever IE loads Sun's Java VM plugin that it's
Sun's plugin (rather than the VM itself) that puts the icon in the
system tray and announces itself to the user? It's still Sun that's
billboarding Java to the user as if the user gives a damn. But that's
good that doesn't happen for desktop apps.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Gerbran » Fri, 25 Feb 2005 07:13:11

Super Spinner schreef:

As you *may* have noticed, other plugins like realplayer and quicktime
put an icon in the systemtray.
Only the Java plugin has the advantage it won't stay in memory when you
close the browser.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Elte » Fri, 25 Feb 2005 20:15:25


Erm... Spinner, if you don't give a damn, just uninstall the whole JVM and be
done with it. In fact, uninstall everything with Sun or Java in their names,
while you're at it. And live happily ever after.

Or...

...install a better browser (like Opera for example) which doesn't even need the
plugin per se. It just needs the JVM. This way you're not stuck with Sun's if
you hate it so much. You can install IBM's for example. Or somebody elses.

> But that's
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Super Spin » Sun, 27 Feb 2005 11:01:36

LOL
I love how you javadvocates take such umbrage at *any* criticism of
your precious, flawed, OOP language. Java is not perfect, and is not
above criticism. Why should I switch browsers to get around poor
behaviour of SUN's plugin?
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Super Spin » Sun, 27 Feb 2005 12:01:01

Einstein, it's not the system tray icon that's the issue. It's that
the system tray applet pops up a message balloon announcing itself when
the plugin is loaded, and directs the user to go to http://www.yqcomputer.com/
for more info. Quicktime and Real don't do this. No other plugin that
I know does this. Sun wants to make sure that the user knows that the
web applet is a java applet with its intrusive message balloon. No
wonder Flash all but eliminated Java from web.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Gerbran » Sun, 27 Feb 2005 21:42:20

Super Spinner schreef:

I can't recall any message balloon. The only way I detect an website
uses applets, is by looking in the systemtray.

Maybe the plugin has an intelligence filter ;-)
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by JTK » Mon, 28 Feb 2005 04:23:40


The message ballon is actually an unintended Public Service Announcement
to the user. It tells him why his computer is suddenly so sluggish, and
the program he's using is so substandard.
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by The Ghost » Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:00:03

n comp.lang.java.advocacy, Super Spinner
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >
wrote
on 25 Feb 2005 18:01:36 -0800
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:

Pedant point: it's not an OOP language, at least, not a
pure one. In fact, the JVM appears fairly conventional,
with the possible exception of being equipped with some
safeguards and fetching data elements from stack a la
Forth as opposed to using registers.

Java itself is C++ without the pointers. A true OOP
language would be more along the lines of Smalltalk,
as one can:

[1] add and change methods after the class has been defined.
Even Java with BCEL doesn't quite make it.

[2] allow for true template compilation. C++ has that now;
Java 1.5's bastardized version looks more like an old
implementation that does things like:

class VectorBase
{
private:
void ** realData;
int nRealData;
int aRealData;
...

public:
VectorBase() : ... {}
VectorBase(VectorBase const &) : ... {}
...

protected:
void * get(unsigned idx) { return realData[idx]; }

};

template <typename T> Vector : public VectorBase {
public:
T & operator[](unsigned idx) { return *(T*)get(idx); }
...
};

C++ abandoned this line of thinking long ago. (Disclaimer:
I don't have 1.5 so can't say precisely how it generates code.
From what I've heard, it's not all that innovative internally.)

This is not to say C++ (or, for that matter, C#) does it
right -- in fact, C++ is a very picky language; Java
at least doesn't have to worry quite as much regarding
freed pointers. For its part Smalltalk got so fragmented
Java surpassed it in sheer numbers.

[3] treat numbers as true objects, which includes methods, polymorphism,
and addition and changing of methods after class
definition/compilation. Java made what looks an awful lot like
an engineering compromise, allowing for arguments that are
primitives (int) as opposed to objects (Integer). The
dichotomy leads to some weird distortions, especially during
array handling and introspection, and one has to watch out for
such things as Integer.class versus Integer.TYPE (yes, they're
different!).

[4] treat arrays as true objects as well. Java comes close, although
the notion of a.length is a bit grating (shouldn't they have
used a.length() or a.size() instead?).

[5] allow for the dynamic generation of programs. Java apparently
does allow for this (otherwise BCEL wouldn't be portable)
but one would think it should be simpler.

[6] Threading in Java is a bit of a mess. Not that C++ is any better;
in fact C++ is far worse. I don't know about C# but hold little
hope for its threading model, either. Perhaps the real culprit
is in the allowing of more than one singleton (static).
Can one prove that a program won't hang?

I'm not sure about such things as enums, standardizing on
one widget model (Java now has three: AWT, Swing, and SWT)
or the integration of Java with XML (XML is only a means
to an end anyway; it's a nice if very inefficient way
of standardizing communications) and I do like the idea
of JNLP, but that's not really part of Java proper. Nor
am I entirely certain about whether such things as

Cereal a[] = new Cereal[10];

a[5] = new Cereal();
a[5].setChewabi
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Aquila Deu » Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:33:12


applets
as
written
concerned.

DOS Batch. It always pops up an ugly console window (and > NULL doesn't
work!).
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Aquila Deu » Mon, 28 Feb 2005 14:33:18


applets
as
written
concerned.

DOS Batch. It always pops up an ugly console window (and > NUL doesn't
work!).
 
 
 

Why do Java apps insist on announcing that they are Java apps?

Post by Elte » Tue, 01 Mar 2005 01:28:06


You call FUD criticism?

> Java is not perfect, and is not

Of course not. However, then you should criticise Java, not _a_ (particular)
plugin's "poor behaviour".

> Why should I switch browsers to get around poor

Maybe you didn't understand me, Spinner. You have a couple of choices: either
you don't install plugins that behave poorly or use browsers that don't need a
plugin. I mean, it's your machine. Why did you install Sun's plugin in the first
place? Uninstall it and install somebody elses.