Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Kunz » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:12:26


Hi,

IMAP doesn't specify a reserved name for the 'Sent' mailbox like 'INBOX'
for the inbox, am I right?
Is there a way to retrieve it from the server? Or do I have to use LSUB
and some heuristics to identify it?

Thanks in advance
Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Sirai » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:05:54


Most clients just use a default built-in name ("Sent Messages" is
somewhat common) and let the user change it.

 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Sam » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 08:18:08

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

Timo Kunze writes:


Correct.


LSUB may not necessarily show all available mailboxes, you have to use LIST.
Furthermore, it's simpler to just set the mailbox as a manual configuration
parameter. No heuristics will get it right 100% of the time.


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Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Kunz » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:10:13

Sam schrieb:
Many thanks for this hint, I'll change my implementation.

That's right. However, it's not my decision, or better: not mine alone.
I've the impression that to have the user configure the name of the
'sent' mailbox is somewhat against the philosophy of this project, but
I'll propose to make it configurable.

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
berzeugung, dass die demokratischen Krfte berwiegen und sich auf
demokratischem Wege durchsetzen."
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Sam » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:19:29

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

Timo Kunze writes:


Define "this project". If you're referring to IMAP, it's quite the opposite.
Historically, IMAP's design leaned towards explicit, manual, client-side
configuration. For example, if the particular IMAP server chose to place
so-called "public" or "shared" folders into a "#public" namespace, IMAP
forced the user to explicitly configure the user's IMAP client accordingly,
because there was no mechanism by which the client could deduce this,
programmatically. The NAMESPACE extension came about later, which finally
allowed the client to figure things out, to some extent, automatically
without requiring manual interaction.



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Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Mark Crisp » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 10:53:18

On Mon, 2 Jun 2008, Sam posted:

Correct. With the benefit of 22 years of hindsight, this was a mistake.

A second mistake was IMAP's attempt to placate both sides (client and
server) of the "who controls the user experience" debate.

In defense, at the time there was still quite a variety of naming schema
that users on these various platforms were accustomed to seeing. UNIX was
clearly on the ascent compared to the old mainframe operating systems, but
it had not yet made the inroads in the PC space that it would a few years
later. URLs were still some time in the future. The mere notion of
"INBOX" as a common name was revolutionary for the time.

An opportunity existed to correct the problem in 1993; but at the time the
passionate debate was between export of a user's UNIX space vs. a netnews
space. Nobody then saw the importance of URLs, nor of other role
mailboxes. To the extent that roles were recognized at all, they were
misunderstood; RFC 1730 added a \Draft system flag rather than defining a
drafts mailbox.

The \Draft system flag would have been alright had IMAP done a better job
of promoting its "keyword" facility as an el cheapo virtual mailbox
facility (which is what it actually is). IMAP instead encouraged the use
of multiple mailboxes, which caused (and still causes!) no end of
problems.

Oh well.

-- Mark --

http://www.yqcomputer.com/
Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to eat for lunch.
Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the vote.
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Kunz » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 15:08:53

I meant the project I'm working on.

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
berzeugung, dass die demokratischen Krfte berwiegen und sich auf
demokratischem Wege durchsetzen."
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Sam » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 20:05:20

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

Timo Kunze writes:


Nobody knows what you mean. There are many informational web pages that
explain how to properly format reply messages, in accordance with
long-established conventions. It would serve you well to read them.


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Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Kunz » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 21:51:35

Sam schrieb:
Do you make this proposal on each simple misunderstanding, especially if
the person you're addressing is not writing in his native language?

Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
berzeugung, dass die demokratischen Krfte berwiegen und sich auf
demokratischem Wege durchsetzen."
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by njh » Wed, 04 Jun 2008 23:44:48

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



I don't think that the meaning is all that obscure here. Timo appears
to be working as a developer on a software project ("the project" to
which he refers), which includes an IMAP client component. He agreed
with your suggestion that the usual way to handle the naming of the
"sentmail" folder was to make it a client-side configuration option,
but noted in passing that he might have difficulties getting this
accepted by other developers and/or decision makers that he is working
with (presumably because they want to minimize configurable options
and setup questions, to make things "easy" for the end-user).

--
Neil Hoggarth ------------------- Computing Manager, Sherrington Building
Department of Physiology, Anatomy and Genetics - University of Oxford, UK
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Sam » Thu, 05 Jun 2008 07:37:59

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

Timo Kunze writes:


I am not aware of any message posting conventions that are different
depending on what language one uses. Acceptable conventions for posting and
replying to messages are the same, no matter what language you use.

In other words, hitting "Reply", then upchucking a single glob of
stream-of-consciousness, without bothering to properly quote the parts of
the original message the reply is intended for (or, worse yet, just replying
without quoting anything), looks rather boorish no matter what language you
use.


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Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Timo Kunz » Thu, 05 Jun 2008 08:32:13

Sam schrieb:
Well, I've been quoting this way for about 8 years now. After hundreds
if not thousands of posts I've made, you're the first person complaining
about my way of quoting.

Was my quoting improper? Maybe. Is there a need to tell me that in an
unfriendly way as you did? I don't think so. Netiquette does not only
consist of quoting rules but also of rules about the level of communication.

Thanks for your help
Bye
Timo
--
www.TimoSoft-Software.de - Unicode controls for VB6
"Those who sacrifice freedom for safety deserve neither."
"Demokratie ist per Definition unsicher. Ihr Schutz entsteht aus der
berzeugung, dass die demokratischen Krfte berwiegen und sich auf
demokratischem Wege durchsetzen."
 
 
 

Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by Sam » Thu, 05 Jun 2008 09:00:09

This is a MIME GnuPG-signed message. If you see this text, it means that
your E-mail or Usenet software does not support MIME signed messages.
The Internet standard for MIME PGP messages, RFC 2015, was published in 1996.
To open this message correctly you will need to install E-mail or Usenet
software that supports modern Internet standards.

Timo Kunze writes:


What quoting? You did not quote anything. You posted a single sentence, in
response to some previous post, without bothering to quote anything. If
anyone wanted to know what you were talking about, they had to go back and
retrieve the previous post in the thread.



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Retrieve the name of the 'Sent' mailbox

Post by outside » Sun, 08 Jun 2008 06:12:47


I just love s**t brained idiots who think they can speak for EVERYONE.
Just because you are too stupid to understand what he meant does not mean
"nobody" knew what he meant.

Unless, of course, you polled everyone who read or may read his post to
come to your conclusion. I understood what he meant but I just may not be
smart enough to not understand him like you.

Andy