installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Mark Kleba » Sat, 18 Sep 2004 06:51:18


'm trying to figure out how to do this installation. I just bought a
new computer (P4 3GHz, 200 MB SATA WD drive), and can't figure out how
to get these systems working together. I'd like to install

boot manager
dos 6 on c: (primary), 250 MB
Win98 on c: (primary), 15,000 MB, primary
Extended logical
d: 30 gb fat32 for both win98 and ecs (running the fat32 ifs driver)
e: hpfs 2 gb
f: hpfs 2 gb install ecs
g: hpfs 60 gb
h: fat32 30 gb
rest of drive hpfs

but I'm having problems. First I used ecs's volume manager during the
install to set up boot manager, a 250 mb primary, a 15 g primary, then
an extended logical. I checked the boxes to make the 2 primaries and
drives f and h "visible to other operating systems" (I assume that's
what people mean when they say "compatibility volume").

The ecs install went fine-- i could format e: f: g: and i: as hpfs and
install ecs. Next I booted, and used boot manager to boot the dos 6.2
partition. Of course, it didn't boot since the partition wasn't
formatted, but it made that the active primary. Then I used a dos
setup disk to format c: /sys. DOS worked fine off of boot manager.
next I used boot manager to make the 15 G partition active, and used a
win98 setup disk to format c: /s. The formatting went fine as fat32,
but when i tried to boot that c: partition, I got an "system not
found, insert system disk" message. That was true even though when I
booted from floppy I could read the partition. Next I used dfsee to
edit that partition from 06 to 0b. Now I could boot from that
partition, but windows scandisk told me that the size was screwed up
because I didn't have LBA enabled!

So I tried again.

this time I started by installing boot manager and the dos primary
only. I booted from a dos floppy and formatted that partition (250
mb). next I booted from a doze98 setup disk and used the doze fdisk
to create a 15 GB primary and re-booted. Interestingly, doze saw the
250 primary, but called it "non-dos" eventhough dos 6.2 was installed
and running fine from it. I used boot manager to make that primary
active, and then re-booted from the doze floppy to format that
partition /s. Then I did an install of win98, which went normally.

next I continued with the installation of ecs. Ecs recognized the
primary dos and the primary fat32 partitions. In an extended
parittion, I created a 30 gb partition (d) to be recognizable by other
operating systems, a 2 gb partition (e) that was not recognizable (ie
lvm), a 2 gb partition (f) to install ecs, a 50 gb partiion (g) under
lbm, a 30 gb partition (h) recognizable to other os'es, and a
partition with everything left (~55 gb) for lvm. I was able to format
e, f, g, and i as hpfs.

Next i re-booted to doze98 and formatted the 2 remaining partitions (d
and h under ecs, d and e under doze) as fat32. I seemed to be able to
format them, but I can't read them with doze. On re-boot, I kept
getting errors on the h: partition.

Also, ecs's volume manager says that those 2 partitions are
unformatted. I also remember hearing that doze98 can't handle 48 bit
lba and so has problems recognizing partitions that span the 137 gb
boundary, which might explain my problems with the h: partition.
However, I don't understand the issues with that d: partition. I
suspect that there's a problem with the type of partition that ecs
sets up.

I have a licensed c
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Philip Nie » Sat, 18 Sep 2004 20:54:53

ark Klebanoff wrote:

I suppose that should have been type 0c ("Win95 FAT32 LBA" in Linux terms).
06 = FAT16 (max size = 2 GB)
0b = FAT32 (below 8 GB, no LBA)
0c = FAT32 (LBA)

(I guess that "LBA" actually means int13 extensions here)


That makes sense to me.


...<long snip>

Some thoughts:

- What type is your extended partition?
Win98 expects a "0f" (to switch on int13 extensions in its drivers)
while (old) OS/2 expects "05". IIRC newer FDISK / LVM versions recognize
"0f" too (but I don't use it on my Warp 3 systems, so I don't know for
sure).

- To make it more complex, Win98 has proven here to nevertheless be able
to *use* large logical FAT32 partitions on large extended type "05"
partitions (on a 60 GB HD), but they could only be *formatted* using
Windows 2000 (or perhaps XP, I don't have that).
Win98 couldn't format them properly, it even screwed up things here
while trying to format.
Perhaps if you temporarily change the extended partition type to "0f"
Win98 may be successful in formatting FAT32.

I've experimented quite a bit and found that plain DOS could not see
anything in a type "05" extended partition extending beyond 8 GB; using
"0f" it could. Apparently this type seems to trigger initialization of
int13 extensions DOS needs for proper access to large HD. And you know,
DOS still is the foundation for Win98.

One more suggestion: stay away from DOS or Win98's FDISK. It may only
screw up things more. Better use LVM / OS/2's FDISK to partition your HD
and DFSee to toggle partition types.

Just my .02 c,

Philip

 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Mark Kleba » Sun, 19 Sep 2004 01:46:29

Thank you, this actually makes some sense. This is probably the third
or fourth computer where I've tried to install os2, win and dos on a
large disk and each time it takes me at last 2 weeks and a dozen failed
installations before I come up with a combination that works. The
trouble is that by that time I've tried so many things that I can't
remember which one actually fixed it.

Basically, would this work?

1) use ecs 1.2 to define 3 primary partitions-- boot manager, 250 MB c:
FAT and 15 GB c: fat32; and also define an extended logical with as many
drives as I want

2) use DFSEE or PTEDIT to change the large c: to 0c

3) use DFSEE or PTEDIT to change the extended logical partition from 05
to 0f

4) within the extended logical partition, use DFSEE or PTEDIT to change
the partitions I plan to format as fat32 to 0c and leave the hpfs/jfs
ones alone

After a lot of reading, that's what I've been able to piece together.
Did I get it right?

Again, I'm looking for
boot manager
c: primary dos (250 mb)
c: primary win98 (over 8 GB) fat32
extended logical
d: extended logical, fat32
e: extended logical, hpfs
f: extended logical, hpfs, ecs bootable
g: extended logical hpfs or jfs
h: extended logical, fat32

I know it violates the rule of putting all fat32 partitions before the
hpfs ones, but I have reasons (mainly historical) for doing it this way
4) use DFSEE or PTEDIT
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Philip Nie » Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:21:29


Ah, well that sounds familiar. Here on very new HD, Warp 3 takes 3 or 4
attempts, Win98 & Win2K 2 or 3, Linux a bit more. There's quite a bit of
interference between the 3 (4).

Only thing is that I often keep a log (-book) (hint!), something I
learned to do early for my profession (hydrogeologist / groundwater
modeling, which involves lots of scenarios each involving heaps of
files, all of them usually similarly named across scenarios - an
situation ideally suited to get much confusion in a short time span).

And to support my memory, I've put much of it up on a web page.


I think so.


I suppose it will work as long as you hide "DOS C:" from "Win98 C:" - M$
OS-es until Win9x/ME hate to see another primary partition they could
access. Usually they *** while still in booting stage, occasionally
the extra primary partition is assigned a drive letter beyond all other
(incl. logical) partitions seen by DOS/W98.


I have never heard of this rule, but then again, who am I :-()

FYI on the extended partition of my boxes all sort of types are happily
mixed up more or less at random. Linux fdisk informs me that partitions
are "out of order", a consequence of deleting partitions and making new
ones whenever and where it suits me. Never encountered any problems there.


Sure.
BTW I always used Linux fdisk rather than DFSee and other tools (it's
free and it can do everything I need. I just need to boot into a
not-to-recent linux distro CD-ROM and proceed until the partitioning
screen. And better, nowadays there are Linux live CD's, e.g., Knoppix).

Philip
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Mark Kleba » Sun, 19 Sep 2004 08:59:28

hanks to everyone here, I actually managed to figure it out, and now
maybe if I ever re-install I will actually understand what I'm doing.

for my next trick, I would like no to create the i: partition, but
rather use lvm to combine what was my g: partiton and my i: partition
into a single 110 gb g: partition, thereby saving me the need to have
an extra letter around. I can't find any information on how to use
lvm to do that.

Do I need to use JFS or can I do it at setup and use HPFS. to open an
argument, if I can do it either way (and I don't need to do it on the
fly) is HPFS or JFS preferable?

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:21:29 UTC, Philip Nienhuis < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >
wrote:



--

 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Herbert Ro » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 14:13:06

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 23:59:28 UTC, "Mark Klebanoff"



I would prefere JFS for anything except the boot volume and the
partitions used by other systems.

Anythimng that is used by other systems and the boot volume should be
compatible (non/bootable)

Anything that is used by eCS exclusive should be LVM.

You can't span HPFS without loosing the data
Spanning needs a reformant over the new big volume

You spans JFS volumes without reformatting the existent one.

You would use the physical view to create partitons.
You would span partitions to one single volumes.

--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.yqcomputer.com/ the home of german eComStation
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Mark Kleba » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 10:20:52

I have a wild-ass question in followup. I would like to move my warp4
system onto the computer where I'm installing ecs. I've found a
bunch of posts on copying some files off of ecs to make warp 4 LVM
compatible. I assume I can also copy the jfs drivers to make it jfs
compatible.

If so, can I copy my warp warp 4 (by tape backup and restore) on an
f: volume under lvm, and not assign that partition a letter when I
boot ecs, and also install ecs to an using lvm, onto an f: volume and
make that f: volume invisble to warp. In other words, my os will
always be f:, but it will be different physical partitions? From my
(hopefully growing) understanding of LVM, that should be possible,
although I will need to backup and restore warp 4 to that system since
I can't actually install it.

On Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:13:06 UTC, "Herbert Rosenau"





--
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Herbert Ro » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 14:58:27

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 01:20:52 UTC, "Mark Klebanoff"



Yes.


No. But you can deassign a drive letter from a volum and assign that
drive letter to another - but not at boot time.

You may deassign f: while the system is running and assign the letter
to another volume but this requires a reboot.

I would assign different drive letters to different OSes anyway
because then you can select the OS during boot with BM. There is no
possibility to use the same drive letter multiple times. When an drive
letter is assigned it is the only visible to OS/2 and eCS. Deassinging
is impossible during boot. To boot an OS/2 it needs to be on a volume
that has actively assigned an drive letter - other OSes will assign
the old fdisk drive letter independant what you have assigned under
LVM because LVM is hidden to them.


--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.yqcomputer.com/ the home of german eComStation
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Steven Lev » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 15:44:19

In <nze6zYQT7gHB-pn2-KsSZdQYc7dUv@localhost>, on 09/21/2004
at 08:20 PM, "Mark Klebanoff" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > said:



Yes. This is all relatively simple. In addition, you can make your Warp4
volume visible as another drive letter when booted to eCS.

While it's easy enough to LVM-ize your Warp4, you only need to do this if
you are going to repartition your drives such that the Warp4 partition is
no longer f: according to the BIOS drive naming rules.

Steven


--
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steven Levine < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > MR2/ICE 2.47 #10183
Warp4/FP15/14.093c_W4 www.scoug.com irc.fyrelizard.com #scoug (Wed 7pm PST)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Mark Kleba » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 18:15:37

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 05:58:27 UTC, "Herbert Rosenau"


I understand, but it would save a lot of re-installation if "os2" were
always on f. So under this system, there would only be 1 "os2" choice
on boot manager-- drive f: I would then boot to the last OS I booted
from, remove its drive letter, assign that letter to the other version
of the OS, and reboot. Boot manager would obediently boot the f:
partition, which was now the different version of os/2? Did I get
that correct? Would that work? If it would work, I understand that
it is clumsy but it would do what I need it to-- always have os/2 on
drive f: and keep Merlin and ecs from seeing each other's files?


--
 
 
 

installing dos, win98 and eCS 1.2

Post by Herbert Ro » Fri, 24 Sep 2004 15:15:25

On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 09:15:37 UTC, "Mark Klebanoff"



It's clupsy but works - when you have WARP4 LVM enabled.


--
Tschau/Bye
Herbert

Visit http://www.yqcomputer.com/ the home of german eComStation