Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by John Cartm » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:09:28


In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,


If we are discussing such things I'd might as well make the most of it. ;-)

Two future possibilities in Qercus:

1. A series on games. I won't say what but, in the past, AU tended to print
such things on a dark background. I don't like the idea but - views?

2. In Acorn Publisher 9:4 we published an article by Henk Huinen on
Mandalas produced using ArtWorks. The background to the text had pastel
versions of the multi-coloured mandalas. Is this sort of background to text
acceptable for future articles?

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Bunge » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:17:58


Personally, I've yet to see *anything* printed on a dark background that
looks good. The more you need to concentrate just to read the stuff, the
harder it is to actually comprehend what you are reading.


Depends a lot on the text size and weight. I don't like backgrounds
myself. If I want to look at pretty pictures I'll get books of pretty
pictures!

--
Bungee

 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Peter Naul » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 03:37:56

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




http://www.yqcomputer.com/ is very difficult to read with anti-aliased
fonts. Even with non-scalable fonts, although the contrast is fine,
it's excellent for making it hard to read for people with an
astigmatism.

--
Peter Naulls - XXXX@XXXXX.COM | http://www.yqcomputer.com/
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please Reply Properly - http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by John Cartm » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 04:08:44

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Peter Naulls < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >






Part of the problem with doing it on the web is the fact that the dark
colour 'encroaches' on the lighter. Dark print on a light background gives
a psychological effect of a poor man's anti-aliasing. Put light print on a
dark background and the grey halo is within the text instead of around it -
and it ends up as all grey on black instead of white on black. On paper you
would alleviate this by printing in bold - or a type with thicker lines -
and get the effect of white text with a halo of grey then the sharp line on
the outside*. In some circumstances the effect can be quite good - but
usually not with pure black and white and it's difficult to control as the
commercially printed version may well turn out to have thinner lines than
intended. And of course you can control none of this on a web site so it
simply doesn't work.

*With black text on white you get the black of the text, then the sharp
line then fuzzy grey fading into the white background.

A number of reading 'defects' are caused by trying to make sense of
defective text and a failure to appreciate the variabilty of people. Colour
problems that can arise in thos area are even worse as there is a clear sex
differentiation with some women having more than three types of colour
recognition cells and some men having less than three.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Kevin Well » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 05:19:43

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




As long as the text is not dark no views.

As long as you can read the text without straining.


--
Kev Wells http://www.yqcomputer.com/
ICQ 238580561
Ah beer. My love for you will never die.
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Rosemary M » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 07:46:03

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, John Cartmell


It's horrible. There are good reasons for using dark text on a light
background - the reverse is so hard to read, I often abandoend such pages on
AU.



Yes - with great emphasis on the pastel. They can add interest, but must
allow adequate contrast for the text.

Rosemary


--
Rosemary Miskin ZFC LVIII XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Loughborough, UK http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Jeremy C B » Sat, 23 Apr 2005 08:13:09

n article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,
John Cartmell < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote:


I suppose the idea is to make the text look more like writing/pictures
appearing on a monitor. I think it's a bad idea. Screenshots can be
done that way, but not editorial.


<scurries off to find the magazine>

Hmmm; I don't generally go for this sort of thing, especially if the
image is small and tiled/repeated across the page (like happens on many
web pages) unless it's no more than a texture, perhaps making the paper
look more like, say, vellum.

In this case on the first page ... eh that seems to be p40 (why's there
no page number?) I'd say the background image would just have been ok
(it's large) if it had been somewhat much paler; for me the text is not
sufficiently contrasted with the image in some places (eg "London" -
2nd last line, column 1 and the caption text for figure 1b).

But it looks like an enlarged copy of the picture shown at the top of
the page - if I was going to do this I'd prefer to see a different
shape in the background because the reader doesn't get much mental
reward for looking at the background image - they've already looked at
it in the clearer picture at the top of the page. It's too dark just to
be ignored, or to be appreciated more or less subconciously.

Having set a background image containing gentle curving lines (most of
them quite thick too), you then superimposed other 'busy' images in
square frames on top of it. For me, the places where the thin black
lines and white backgrounds for these images cut across the background
image are awkward to look at. The subtlety of the background image
(especially if it had been a bit paler) is interrupted and that
interruption is ugly.

The framed images at the top of p41 are much better because most of
them are against a plain white background with only parts of two of
them having a backgound image. What's more the background image there
is simpler. This image is also too dark for my taste, especially in
its denser central section, and unfortunately that section obliterates
part of its caption text too. At the bottom of the page there are
screenshots of four info bars and I do not like having to sort out in
my head which parts of these pictures are the bars themselves and which
are the underlying background image.

On p42 I don't like the way that the background image covers the top
left corner of the page, when other pages keep the top margin white. I
find the 2nd paragraph of figure 8's caption text slightly hard to read
against the image under it. For the page as a whole my eyes are drawn
to the dark background image at the bottom righthand corner when I'd
say that the text, or maybe figure 8 itself are more important.

So... I think I can cope with limited use of pale 'watermark' images,
especially if they are on pages where most of the content is just text,
but elsewhere I find it distracting.

This isn't just a publishing taste thing though; I prefer minimalist
furnishing/decor over rampant flowery patterned stuff, austere churches
to florid baroque ones, and so on.

--
Jeremy C B Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Chris War » Sun, 24 Apr 2005 00:20:27

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Bungee




The optimum colour for the visually impaired is black text on yellow.
As supplied <recommended> by all UK examination boards.

Although I have seen 1 buff coloured script - it may have been home produced.
Thats over some ?? (started in 1982) years of marking - circa 1k to 2k scripts / year.


Chris
--
I run on ARM power- the best of computer technology.
Flawless to Micro$oft users - NO viruses can get at me!!!!!
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Lionel Smi » Sun, 24 Apr 2005 05:03:32

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



I think that John is referring to the printed page where the issues have
a different foundation.

As those involved in attempting colour fidelity between a positive
(addative image and RGB) (projected colour slide or monitor) and the
resultant printed output (subtractive colour and CMYK) will attest.

Lionel

--
___ ______
/ / / ___/ 4 children | Sea Vixen for pugnacity
/ / ionel A.| \ mith 8 grandchildren, | Hunter for elegance
/ /____ __\ | no wonder life is a breeze | Phantom for clout
/_______/ /_____/ http://www.yqcomputer.com/ | ZFC B+4+4

From an OS that Windows is too young to remember. ;-)
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Lionel Smi » Sun, 24 Apr 2005 05:07:12

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



I still remember the early issues of Archimedes World. I used them as
examples in DTP classes of 'How not to do it'.

There again I will probably get stick from some folk for some of the
backgrounds of my web site.

Depends on how intrusive any background is and how any negative effect
can be ameliorated.

Lionel

--
___ ______
/ / / ___/ 4 children | Sea Vixen for pugnacity
/ / ionel A.| \ mith 8 grandchildren, | Hunter for elegance
/ /____ __\ | no wonder life is a breeze | Phantom for clout
/_______/ /_____/ http://www.yqcomputer.com/ | ZFC B+4+4

From an OS that Windows is too young to remember. ;-)
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by Richard Tr » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 19:47:23

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, John Cartmell



Generally light text on a dark background is not a good idea - it is not so
easy to read as the reverse.


Text on patterned backgrounds can also be difficult to read - the darker and
more "fussy" the background, the worse the legibility.

But at the end of the day you have to judge for yourself. The problem is
that what might look absolutely fine on your computer monitor often looks
much worse when printed.

--

Richard Travers
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
Truro, Cornwall
01872 271125
 
 
 

Magazine layout in RISC OS (was RISC OS in schools)

Post by John Cartm » Tue, 26 Apr 2005 21:50:31

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Richard Travers





Something I haven't done as yet - but might find an alternative way of
giving the effect that is required.



Something I've been very wary of in the past. There my be mor in the
future...


..but only if we can be reasonably sur of getting this very problematic
bit right.

--
John Cartmell john@ followed by finnybank.com 0845 006 8822
Qercus magazine FAX +44 (0)8700-519-527 www.finnybank.com
Qercus - the best guide to RISC OS computing