Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Alex' Inte » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 00:56:31


In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




Does this mean that NetSurf isn't special to/for *RISC OS*? I thought
it's just for RISC OS? I don't understand: Why does everybody write his
own web browser? Wouldn't be a running version of Firefox II enough for
all of us?

I made the experience that Oregano I is the *fastest* WebBrowser on my
machine. Firefox isn't so much slower, it's just the user interface
which is very slow here.

My question again: Why we have the need for *a lot* of webbrowsers?

Alex'

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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by paulstewar » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:13:05

In message <7c1cf7d24e% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




The problem we have had in the past is that of commericality. Browse,
WebsterXL, Fresco and Oregano have all been commerical products.
Browse died when Acorn left the scene; WebsterXL is still a
development possibility but as I understand it, the developer is now
in full time employment so development time is limited; Fresco
development for RISC OS died when ANT left the scene; Oregano is still
in development and available to a few beta testers.

Netsurf started as an open source RISC OS browser a few years ago. It
has recently been made cross platform and is still in active
development and approaching a 1.0 release.

FireFox is a port to RISC OS made available via the UNIX porting
project. I believe most, if not all, was ported by the superb
programming skills Peter Naulls.

Regards
Be Bold. Dare To Be Different. Use RISC OS ( http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ).
It's blue and from outta town - The A9home
( http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ).
A9home Compatibility page -
( http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ).

 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by John Cartm » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:24:48

In article <7c1cf7d24e% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,


NetSurf is much faster. It's possible that the majority of RISC OS users have
NetSurf as their first choice browser with a (slower) back up for those sites
that NetSurf misses.

--
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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by New » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:25:30

In article <7c1cf7d24e% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



Because they all have strengths and weaknesses. NetSurf is fast, free, and
implements a lot of CSS, but it has no JavaScript. The Oreganos do have JS,
but do not do CSS stuff at all well, and their JS is limited.

Firefox should eventually do everything if porting continues, but is only
viable on a new fast machine like the Iyonix, and the present version is
incomplete feature-wise. Worth having for awkward banking sites, though,
particularly.

Browse is of historical interest only, and WebsterXL has fallen well behind.
Fresco is now out-of-date and reputedly unstable on many machines.

John

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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Chris Wrai » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:37:42

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 16:56:31 +0100, Alex' Interrants



NetSurf originated as a RISC OS browser, but has since developed
versions for other platforms. In my view, this is a very good thing:
if NetSurf can attract some development and bug-reporting from
elsewhere, then all versions, including the RISC OS one, should
benefit.


There have been too many browsers developed in the past, that's true.
But now, we effectively have two active projects: NetSurf and Firefox.
NetSurf is fast, RISC OS compliant and very easy to use. Firefox can
get into more sites, but is slower and is more unstable. As far as I
know, development is continuing on both (although NetSurf seems to be
the most active project at the moment).


It's possible that Oregano will see another version. Personally, I
would rather see everyone getting behind NetSurf and Firefox. I think
there's a place for both in the community, and they're each important
for different reasons.

Chris
 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Alan Calde » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 02:41:05

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, John Williams (News)




[Snip]


Makes me a historian then :-)

Still my browser of first resort but Netsurf is creeping up on it.

Cheers

Alan
[Snip]

--
Alan Calder, Milton Keynes, UK.
 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Chik » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 03:11:43

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,









I tend to cross-browse with Browse 2.08 (one of the Phoenixes), Oregano
1.10js and NetSurf, though Fresco and Arcweb still lurk in there
somewhere. Fresco, however, is an older version that, despite the support
notes, refuses to upgrade without Voyager (and I killed that off quite a
while ago) and Arcweb was only kept on for site destruction testing (if it
can survive Arcweb and still be useable, then there is hope for it).
However, I stopped using Arcweb for that a couple of years back, and I
could never get Fresco's ECMAScript to work properly.

--
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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by georg » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 04:50:43

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >



snip

I agree: NS and Firefox are also my browsers of choice, and deserve
support. I sense (without having any inside knowledge) that Oregano 3
will never see the light of day on RISC OS. What we now need IMHO is
plugin support - a lot of sites use Flash in particular as part of the
access procedure. Are there any open-source Flash or RealPlayer apps
that might be ported?

George

--
 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by S G » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 05:34:45


[Browse]



The last released version of Browse was 2.07 wasn't it? How did you
get hold of 2.08 - how does it differ from 2.07 - can others get
hold of it and if so, how?

--
Stewart Goldwater
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Steve Pott » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 08:11:15

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >





My thoughts exactly. Where can we get it from?

--
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Written on RISC OS.
http://www.yqcomputer.com/

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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by dgs » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 14:54:09

In article <7c1cf7d24e% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



My understanding is that NetSurf was originally written "for RISC OS", but
it just happens to have been ported to other operating systems as well.

More importantly, NetSurf is unlike other - more "commercial" - web
browser projects, where the most recent versions of the browser appear on
other platforms, but aren't available for desktop RISC OS users. The
NetSurf project shows no signs whatsoever of going down the same route.


Yes, but users find user interfaces very important :-)

Yes, perhaps a running version of FireFox 2 would be enough for most of us
(not all of us - it wouldn't run very well or at all on your A7000, for
example). But how much work is being done on that at the moment?

Equally, some people still think the release version of Oregano 3 would be
enough for most of us. But the release of that doesn't seem to be
noticeably closer than it was eigh *** months ago - as far as I know.


As others have explained, there is a need for a lot of web browsers,
because some of them have problems of various sorts. Also, going back to
what you said above, it's not really a case of "everybody writes his own
web browser" - NetSurf is not something that has been cooked up by one
individual over a summer holiday. It's the product of about five years'
work from a large team of people.

And it allows people to try a second web browser under RISC OS (e.g.
Firefox) if their first choice web browser (e.g. NetSurf) doesn't handle a
specific website that they need to use occasionally.

I imagine some of your questions will be covered on Monday night anyway
(and bits of the answers filter back here), although the aim of the
evening is not mostly to discuss "why should I use NetSurf rather than
Firefox?" - I think that discussion has already been done :-)

--
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the Sinclair QL, but again I have hardware problems: I've only got one QL
and it's broken." - Frodo Morris
 
 
 

Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by dgs » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 15:00:09

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,



Coincidentally, John-Mark himself has shown that Gnash (an open source
Flash player) can be ported to RISC OS - this will play Flash 7. However,
this is something that he probably won't be demonstrating on Monday night,
as the port needs work from other programmers to bring it up to speed and
develop it, and he's concentrating on other things.

--
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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Tim Hil » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:43:15

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, John Cartmell




Personally, I have never found the RISC OS port of FF2 to be useable
(YMMV) or for that matter any RISC OS browsers capable of running the BBC
Radio Player (!) so a toe in the XP pee sea is essential.

I hate to admit, MIE7 is almost okay. ;-)

T

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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Chik » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 19:50:51

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >,








I forget now the place where I got it. It's actually known as Phoenix, and
was a version of Browse onto which a Javascript engine was being written,
though the version I have is pretty much useless at doing that sort of
thing. As I recall, it came to me via someone on an IRC channel some years
ago back in the days when Oregano 2 was being written and tested (not the
version that everyone knows, but the version that was abandoned). ISTR
there were a few versions of Phoenix around, each in a different state of
functionality, but 2.08 was the only one I ever used.

The only difference between 2.08 and 2.07 is the Javascript bit and a few
icons but, as the Javascript bit doesn't work (it was never finished), it
isn't really worth having except as a curiosity. I still have it installed
because I never got around to uninstalling it - besides the unfinished
bit, it is totally useable, so I kept it.

--
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// \// "Word to the wise guy; be nice or be dog food!"

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Developing RISC OS Web Browsers at London RISC OS user group, Monday 16th April 2007

Post by Chris Wrai » Sun, 15 Apr 2007 21:57:11

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >



The BBC Player uses either RealPlayer or Windows Media Player to play
its content. Neither of these is likely to be supported on RISC OS in
the foreseeable future (though I believe that RealPlayer audio may now
be open-source now). You can't blame the browser authors/porters for
this: getting media to play on RISC OS is a different project, one
which is hampered by processing power, proprietary codecs and the
effort of developing a suitable solution.

--
Chris Wraight

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