IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by jb » Fri, 13 May 2005 05:17:33


Hi

I am amongst those who prefer to use IMAP for handling email, held on a
central server, from a number of disparate client machines. This can be
readily done on 26bit RISC OS using Marcel, despite some shortcomings.

However the ONLY solution so far found for full 32bit RISC OS is to use
!Messenger with !RemoteNB to do the IMAP. This works OK on small IMAP
mail archives but is dreadfully slow on larger installations.

I have accumulated probably 3 gigs of archives over perhaps 270
mail 'folders'. With Marcel one could put these in real directories on
the server, so on login only those folders in the current directory
were checked .. with new folders content checked on entering a new
directory.

!Messenger however 'pretends' that directories don't exist, hence tries
to check all 3 gigs of mail before completing login. This takes 15 to 20
mins on a fast intranet .. its impossible from off site!

I have had several attempts to encourage the authors of messenger to
'respect' folders and only interrogate them on opening a folder .. to
no avail. Tom with !RemoteNB had valiantly improved things, but
!RemoteNB is still hostage to the requests from Messenger..

SO..

How do I proceed .. Could Tom and the Tapirmail guys get together and
resolve this, or perhaps Tom and the pluto team? ... Could 32bit
!Marcel be made available? or what?

i.e. Please .. a GUI based IMAP aware 32bit RISC OS email client
please.. HOW?

Thanks
--
John Ballance
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IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Philip Lud » Fri, 13 May 2005 06:13:41


The speed of logging in and opening folders from an IMAP server has come
up on the MPro list.

Recently there was a discussion where the email server software
'dovecot' was recommended - because it cached directory information
rather than re-interrogating the filesystem everytime a folder was
opened.

Migrating to this software might not have any effect off-site, but ought
to improve things on-site.

[snip]


You'll have to talk to Paul Vigay about a 32-bit Marcel.
I know he has the source code to quite a bit of the old ANT Suite and he
may have already got at 32-bit version of Marcel.

Yours,

Phil L.
--
http://www.yqcomputer.com/ | http://www.yqcomputer.com/
http://www.yqcomputer.com/

 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by jb » Fri, 13 May 2005 07:36:40

Hi

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




it helped a little, but threw up issues of its own.. to the extent that
I reverted to the previous offering ..

<rant>The real grump in this case is that messenger will not respect the
use of real directories to partition folders 'out of the way'.. why
interrogate 2.9 gigs of, effectively, archived mail on every login? ..
directories on the server are there for a purpose.. ignored by
messenger</rant>

Thanks

John


[snip]


--
John Ballance
XXXX@XXXXX.COM
 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Tom Hughe » Fri, 13 May 2005 08:12:23

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >



A lot of that depends on the server... I believe you're using
the UW server which is about the worst possible choice for such
large amounts of mail.


I have 2-3 hundred megabytes on my server and don't have any problems
so it ought to be possible to handle 3 gigabytes without it taking
that long.

Messenger doesn't really pretend that directories don't exist, it
just give a full recursive listing of the available folders. Unlike
many clients it also watches all folders for new messages because
many people filter mail so that it doesn't all end up in the INBOX.

The Newsbase protocol essentially requires that all folders are
polled at startup anyway, even if they aren't being watched for
new mail. I have added a cache to help with that overhead, which
is your main problem as I understand it as ongoing polls happen
in the background.

I know that you had problems with the cache on your Iyonix, but
as far as I can find from searching my mail you never replied to my
last email on that subject (sent at 21:03 on 31st August 2003).


Well Colin has now put in the tree view but at the moment it
doesn't wait until tree nodes are opened poll the groups, partly
because it displays message counts against the collapsed tree
nodes.

It ought to be possible to expand the subscription system used
for newsgroups to mail folders when tree view is in use, but the
message counts on collapsed tree would be lost. Also a side effect
of that system is that once you've expanded a tree it would carry on
polling those groups even after you've collapsed it. Stopping that
would require further extensions to the message protocol.


I fail to understand what you expect me to do with Tapirmail or Pluto...

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ( XXXX@XXXXX.COM )
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Tom Hughe » Fri, 13 May 2005 08:13:34

In message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >



Anything other that UW would help. I suggested Cyrus in the past
which is what I use, although if I was starting from scratch now
then I might use dovecot for simplicity.

For very large volumes of mail I suspect that Cyrus would probably
outperform dovecot though.

Tom

--
Tom Hughes ( XXXX@XXXXX.COM )
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Mike Sande » Fri, 13 May 2005 18:13:28


This doesn't help those who want to connect to an IMAP mail store where
the server isn't theirs to change.

I've pretty much given up on trying to do IMAP on RISC OS - I now use
either our webmail interface, or thunderbird on a PC. Secure IMAP was
the killer but I had also found a considerable performance reduction on
moving from Marcel to MPro/RemoteNB, when accessing the same email on
the same server.

I'm certainly willing to pay for a solution to this - the question is
whether there are enough people in this (fairly small) niche to make it
worthwhile . . .

Mike
--
Mike Sandells
The University of Liverpool - Computing Services Department
Work: XXXX@XXXXX.COM http://www.yqcomputer.com/
Home: XXXX@XXXXX.COM http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Tom Hughe » Sat, 14 May 2005 01:04:07

In message <d5v6np$amh$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >



Indeed, but that didn't apply in John's case.


I have tried to do Secure IMAP but I can't get the SSL module to
connect to any of my servers...

As far as any other problems go I can't find any record of any
contact from you about any problems you may have had or I would
have attempted to help resolve them.

Tom


--
Tom Hughes ( XXXX@XXXXX.COM )
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
 
 
 

IMAP4 32bit client .. a challenge

Post by Mike Sande » Sat, 14 May 2005 04:53:28

On 12 May, in message < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >




True - however a solution to John's problem that requires changes at the
server end reduces the number of users it would help.


I raised it on the Messenger mailing list back in August 2004, at which
point you indicated that it had been on the to-do list for a while, but
had kept being deferred as non-critical (thread was called 'Secure
IMAP'). You indicated then that you might raise the priority of it.

I haven't raised the performance issue before, partly because the
requirement for secure IMAP to log in to our servers made it moot, but
also because it wasn't unacceptable performance, just reduced from what
I'd experienced with Marcel (Comparing MPro/RemoteNB on Iyonix with
Marcel on an SA RPC). However, I don't have anything like the quantity
of email that John has.


Mike
--
Mike Sandells
Work: XXXX@XXXXX.COM http://www.yqcomputer.com/
Home: XXXX@XXXXX.COM http://www.yqcomputer.com/