Dvorak Likes Linux

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Sylvia Els » Sun, 15 Mar 2009 15:21:52


> http://www.yqcomputer.com/ ,2845,2342869,00.asp

"You should also note that almost all of the newest hardware coming out
has Linux support."

I think that's overstating it, and figuring out whether the hardware one
intends to buy is supported can be a tortuous process. Life is not made
any easier by the fact that some manufacturers will completely change
the design of a board and just change the revision number.

Sylvia.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by YKha » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 00:21:31


Actually, I've had a similar problem with a bluetooth adapter that I
just can't seem to get a driver for. I assume the solution to this
will be for an OEM to package a bluetooth adapter already configured
and known to work with Linux. We are heading towards an era where PCs
won't be nearly so customized, except from out of the factory. This
can only help Linux, when the factory puts stuff in that is guaranteed
to work.

We won't be adding nearly so much stuff into our PCs from the
aftermarket.

Yousuf Khan

 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jan Pantel » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 01:52:34

On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 08:21:31 -0700 (PDT)) it happened YKhan
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:



Well, I dunno, I bought a Trust bluetooth USB dongle to use in the eeePC.
It came in a plastic sales thing that states 'drivers for Vista, Xp, and win9x.
I only have win 98, decided to try the CD, and it tells me only Vista and Xp...
Looked at the CD, there was a 9x directory, but 98 SE does not like those files.
So.. into the eeePC, and after lots of trying it worked.
We will -always- have USB gadgets, for example I have a Huawei USB modem,
that worked out of the box (GPRS HSDPA) on the eeePC.
But the problem is this with the bluetooth adapter:
For MS windows, you get drivers for Vista and Xp, plus nice utilities to
send and receive sound, and I suppose it works.
For Linux the tendency seems to be to make modules for everything.
Now those modules need to be compiled with the right kernel version.
And there are a zillion kernel versions, and I think the module even needs to be
compiled with the right gcc version.
Result: Companies cannot supply 1000 different modules, so forget about anything working.
People cannot compile modules as they have no kernel sources and headers installed, and likely
no gcc too, so Linux is hopeless to sell things for that just work, it
all takes a computer nerd and oceans of time.
So what do people do? They need some functionality, and buy the [eee]PC with Xp...
And their stuff works.
This is the reality of it, and Linux will have to change that stupid module habit
to ever make it for the masses.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Robert Mye » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 05:06:20

On Mar 13, 8:28m, Jan Panteltje


Maybe you'd be happier in the world of OpenVMS: extremely stable OS,
authoritarian vendor and user community (no democratic chaos), endless
supply of super-cheap hardware (what to do with all those Itanium
boxes that fix into such a *** sy little niche), open source code for
non-commercial uses.

Or you can fork Linux any time or any place you like.

Or you can pick up any of the ambitious OS efforts that have been
started and abandoned at places like CMU and MIT.

If you're going to count on someone else to do it for you, you have to
put up with whatever *they* decide. Has nothing to do with
capitalism, socialism, Marxism, imperialism, or even that the world of
software has a special corner on human foibles.

Personally, for all the aggravation, I don't see anything in the near
future but Linux (as dominated by IBM and RedHat) and Windows (because
of all those proprietary encoders).

Who knows. Maybe ARM will kill off both x86 and its co-dependent
OS's. Only time will tell.

In the meanwhile, I'm really happy with the LInux and Open Source
Communities (pax, RMS), and I can tolerate Windows. I really don't
think I could do better.

Robert.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jan Pantel » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:15:05

On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
Myers < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:


Long time ago I wrote my own CP/M clone..
Without ever having [had] access to a CP/M system.
Only had some floppies with CP/M source files from the CP/M user group, so I could test.
Of course I designed the hardware too (Z80 based), it is actually all on the net:
http://www.yqcomputer.com/
Then I had the software toolworks C/80 compiler running on it,
wrote a windowing multitasker in 8080 asm for it, then the thing was full.
Designed and build a soundcard, floppy interface, video card, IO card,
EPROM programmer, packet radio card, RAMdisk card, etc.. for that.
Wrote all the software, sound editor too.
Now it did not have a TCP stack, but it did have a serial port
and was online with that.
So, basically I have done everything :-) the rest I did later in Linux.
So, for me, it would be very easy to type down my own multitasker and
the apps I already have, question of porting:
http://www.yqcomputer.com/




Well, why bother.



Well, I was just looking if I should buy a Nokia N95 and write some apps for Symbian.
LOL.
Just checking the neighbourhood so to speak, I do not like Java though.




Perhaps, with all code in C or java, the processor is not that important anymore.




I tend to set targets that are difficult to meet.
But I also want to make VERY CLEAR that Linux is getting just as bloated as MS.
Some time ago, some a professor, who once was very anti-Linux, released a new version of his OS.
Maybe I should look it up, do you know who I mean ;-)?
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Robert Mye » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:06:01


You might bother if you grasped that existing OS's have got it all
wrong. Or, you might not bother if you grasped that existing OS's and
existing ISA's have one another in a death grip.

But I don't don't think you grasp those things, and I'm sure you will
think I am patronizing you for saying so.

Why bother, indeed? Why bother with a different OS or a different ISA
unless you've got something really different on your mind?

Robert.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jan Pantel » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 20:28:40

On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 22:06:01 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Robert
Myers < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:



I have to confirm that what others have sort of suggested, that you suck, do not
really know anything about the subject, never wrote an OS, are here
just to vent the over-pressure valve on your brain that ran hot
trying to understand the issues.

I wrote his newsreader too: NewsFleX: see headers. Or here:
http://www.yqcomputer.com/

I designed the filters, they work exceptionally well.
I will now add some of your text to the filter:
done
For the others: I you are replying to this person I will not see your
reply either.. or if you mention him, any reference will do.
Never to appear again on my screen.
Good filter job, I must say :-)

Your reply was funny though, but it is extremely distracting, no intelligent
conversation can come from it, nothing to learn, and time is the most valuable
thing we have.
You will not change, your neural pathways must have been frozen in the last ice age or thereabout...

So much for that.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jack » Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:58:25


:
::
:: Well, why bother.
::
:
: You might bother if you grasped that existing OS's have got it all
: wrong. Or, you might not bother if you grasped that existing OS's
: and existing ISA's have one another in a death grip.
:
: But I don't don't think you grasp those things, and I'm sure you
: will think I am patronizing you for saying so.

You are SUCH a freaking bag of hot air....what an *** . I've been
reading Jan Pantelje's posts for years (at least since '98 or so) in various
NG's. I've also had the displeasure of following your arcane reasoning in a
multitude of "posts de mierda)" over the years...sometimes I think your
alias is "Ron Reaugh" in place of "R. Myers." I wish you would just
s.t.f.u. because you're clearly out of your league here. LOL!

J.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Robert Mye » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 01:28:12


It's pretty simple. If someone says things that are of no value to
you, you ignore them.

Here, you are engaged in a different activity, which is defamation.
There's nothing subtle about it. You are directly attacking my
character, my personality, my knowledge, and my intelligence. Why you
feel the need to do that or why you would think it an appropriate
thing to do is beyond my imagining.

There is no technical content to this conversation at all. It's about
social realities: how you evaluate others, how you think others will
evaluate you, and what you think you can get away with in a social
setting. What you think you can get away with is repulsive.

I don't have any absolute technique for evaluating your intelligence
or anyone else's. You may be very smart in ways that are utterly
beyond my comprehension, but it works both ways. If you can't
understand how I think or how I express myself, it doesn't mean that
I'm stupid or any other negative quality you might wish to attach to
me.

The fact that you think you are qualified as an evaluator of absolute
intelligence says a lot to me about who I think you are and what I
think I could and could not successfully communicate to you.

I've done enough coding to know that I'm much better at some tasks
than at others. Writing an OS would not be a good use of my time.

I worded something in a way so that you and Jan and perhaps others
took it in a way that I did not intend. You and Jan have adopted a
tone of such a nature that it is impossible to try to fix it.

Not everyone thinks the same way or has the same ideas at the same
time. That's all I meant by "if you grasped."

If you want to object to something technical that I've said, feel
free. If you want to attack my personality, it isn't exactly true
that there is nothing I can do to stop you, but I'm not going to waste
my time.

Robert.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Yousuf Kha » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 02:25:13


Which is why I think getting a linux laptop pre-configured with all of
the right hardware is probably the way things are going to go. The OEM
would include only hardware that had drivers in Linux already. Despite
Windows' true claim to be the best supported OS in terms of drivers,
most people rarely add things to Windows beyond simple USB storage
devices. If you get a laptop which includes bluetooth, a *** ,
built-in, you probably never need to add anything else into it. People
will use that as is, till it's time to replace the laptop.

Yousuf Khan
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jan Pantel » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 03:23:15

On a sunny day (Sun, 15 Mar 2009 13:25:13 -0400) it happened Yousuf Khan
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in <49bd39f8$ XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:



Totally wrong.
People buy digital cameras, they want to access those from the laptop,
maybe edit the video on it too.
Same for audio devices, headphones via USB, cardreaders for other formats,
Install new codecs, new webbrowser versions (security upgrades appear
every day), other adaptors...
There is no limit.
My advice to those, unless you are a nerd and are good in C and a few other
computer languages, and have thousands of hours time,
do NOT but a Linux version, buy Xp.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by YKha » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 14:16:34


Most digital cameras these days simply act as standard USB mass
storage devices. No problem. Editing them isn't a problem either.

Yousuf Khan
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jack » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 17:55:18


<snip>

: Not everyone thinks the same way or has the same ideas at the same
: time. That's all I meant by "if you grasped."

Oh, PA-LEASE!!
:
: If you want to object to something technical that I've said, feel
: free. If you want to attack my personality, it isn't exactly true
: that there is nothing I can do to stop you, but I'm not going to
: waste my time.

LOL! Pot...kettle...black.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jack » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 18:08:25


:: On a sunny day (Sat, 14 Mar 2009 13:06:20 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
<snip>

:: Long time ago I wrote my own CP/M clone..
:: Without ever having [had] access to a CP/M system.
:: Only had some floppies with CP/M source files from the CP/M user
:: group, so I could test.
:: Of course I designed the hardware too (Z80 based), it is actually
:: all on the net: http://www.yqcomputer.com/

Ah, good ole Zilog (Cupertino, CA). Worked for them while attending SJSU
from 1981-1982. Now THAT company was different! I have some rather fond
(if not faded) memories working as the engineering "go-between" for Zilog
and LLNL (Lawrence Livermore). Nothing ever came of it, however. :-(
Moved on for a one-year stint over at IBM (Almaden Research Center) which,
after working at Zilog, turned me into a complete schizoid. But I
digress....

Sorry for the OT reply but the mere mention of Zilog sort of brings tears to
my eyes. ;-)

J.
 
 
 

Dvorak Likes Linux

Post by Jan Pantel » Tue, 17 Mar 2009 20:24:00

On a sunny day (Sun, 15 Mar 2009 22:16:34 -0700 (PDT)) it happened YKhan
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in
< XXXX@XXXXX.COM >:


>
>Most digital cameras these days simply act as standard USB >ass
>storage devices. No problem. Editing them isn't a problem eit>er>
>
> Yousuf Khan

Wrong again.
Although my Canon A470 digital camera (for example) can be read as USB mass device, the following applies:
You cannot use any of the Canon utilities that come with the camera as it has no Linux support.
Canon still makes the best cameras, so why settle for an inferior product.
You cannot even register your camera online with Canon, as that requires their win software package.

Now, as a second point, tell me where can I find the video editor for the eeePC
that will edit the video I shoot with that camera, or my Mustek mpge4 camera,
or some of the other ones I have?
And that is only the camera.
My Canon scanner the same story.
In fact, everything you buy that has no Linux drivers, and even if it _has_ Linux drivers,
there is no soft to use with it.

So again, if you want functionality, buy Xp (and if you are an Apple user you should be OK
for video too in many cases).

And now you will tell me where to simply download the soft so I can use my Nokia headset with the eeePC in Skype.
And I do not mean install and compile 100 packages, as there is 1) no space
for all sources, and 2) then it still does not work, and 3) I have tried and it is a mess.

We have to see the reality of things, Linux is hopeless for vendors.
And it is hopless for the user who just wants to actually do things like editing a video,
something that comes standard with Xp and Mac to I think.
And that are only a _few_ of the minus points of Linux.

And I should know, I have been using it since version .98, written almost every application for it
you can imagine, including video processing, _myself_, so take it from an expert.

Do I have to write the f*cking editor too?
Do I have to write EVERYTHING I need?
If that is your idea of user friendly go use Linux.