Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Chris True » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 04:26:39


For me choosing a laptop was so much easier when you simply looked at the
CPU frequency and bought the one with the highest number. Not so now. And
so to my question:

Will a Dell Insprion P-IV clocked at 3.4GHz beat a Dell Pentium-M based M60
clocked at 2GHz? I am looking for a machine that will serve as a desktop
replacement handling software development, 3D rendering, games, oh and
Microsoft Office 2003.

Thanks in advance.



Chris.
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Benjamin G » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 05:00:41

"Chris Trueman" < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > schrieb im Newsbeitrag



CPU frequency never was a good factor for comparisons...


Yes, for sure. As average guideline, a P-M is at comparable clock speed
around 1.6x as fast as a P4 with the same clock. However, on certain
applications like games etc. the P4 is even faster.

Benjamin

 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Quaoa » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:09:30


You mention nothing about video, and that might be even more important
to you than a plus or minus argument about the processor choice. Get
the most VRAM with Nvidia or ATI you can afford, no matter the
processor. Get a 7200rpm Hitachi or Toshiba driver. Frankly, given the
track record of heat-related problems with P4 processors in laptops, I
would avoid them like the plague. A P4M perhaps, but certainly not a
P4, unless there has been a significant development in heat pipe cooling
in the last three hours I've been off line.

Q
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Chris True » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 06:23:23

Thanks for the advice. Development tools, it seems to me, use plenty of
CPU, plenty of RAM, and need fast I/O. In that capacity, a Pentium-M with
a 7200 RPM disk and 1GB of RAM would probably do very nicely thank you very
much. But I can't help but feel I'm missing out on another whole 'nother
GHz of CPU performance by skipping the P-IV.

Anyone got any pointers to benchmarks? I'd love to run my own but I doubt
Dell will loan me a couple of machines.


Chris.
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Dan Kore » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 07:01:59


You're fooling yourself. For most workloads, the PM's
2 MB cache will produce better results than the P4M's
smaller cache. The extra clock cycles will most of
the time most likely be wasted by the CPU being
stalled waiting for cache misses begin serviced
from main memory.




Benchmarks are largely irrelevant unless they
are representative of the same workload you
would be running.




You can always buy the two laptops from
Costco and return one within six months.



dk
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by usenetMYSH » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 08:11:07


: For me choosing a laptop was so much easier when you simply looked at the
: CPU frequency and bought the one with the highest number. Not so now. And
: so to my question:

: Will a Dell Insprion P-IV clocked at 3.4GHz beat a Dell Pentium-M based M60
: clocked at 2GHz? I am looking for a machine that will serve as a desktop
: replacement handling software development, 3D rendering, games, oh and
: Microsoft Office 2003.

I recently compared two Toshiba laptops from Costco. One was a 3.2GHZ
Pentium 4 with HyperThreading (HT), maybe even the newest Prescott P4
(because of the 1GB cache). The other was a 1.5GHZ Pentium M
(Centrino). Both had 4200RPM hard drives and DDR RAM (not sure of the
speed, but I could look it up from the Toshiba specs; I think both had
either a 533MHZ or a 400MHZ Front-side Bus).

I tried an image processing application (converting RAW image files
from Canon cameras) which was miserably slow on the first Centrino
machine I evaluated last April. I was surprised and pleased that the
Pentium M machine was only about 20% slower with this CPU-intensive
application than the Pentium 4 machine. I consider this acceptable;
we got the Centrino machine for my brother instead of the Pentium 4
machine, because the fastest possible CPU speed was not required, and
I did worry about the heat of this 3.2GHZ chip.

There is no inherent problem with Pentium 4 chips in laptops though
the latest Prescott chips *do* run rather hot (I have one in my
desktop), so I would probably avoid them specifically in a laptop.
But my 2GHZ Celeron (P4-derivative) laptop has been fine - no cooling
problems at all. I think a laptop's cooling solution is as important
as the heat of the CPU.

Costco will let you install and try stuff if you ask them and do it
nicely (they will need to login as administrator). That's how I
did my tests. Actually, I was told that Costco's 6-month return
policy applies to Dell machines that you buy through Costco.com - I
asked (it's in the fine print on Costco.com also). It's pretty nice
that you can return a Dell machine for a full refund at at a Costco
store if you try it and don't like it.

Andrew
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Clin » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 11:14:58

Which Inspiron P4 laptop are you looking at? I've got the 9100, and keep a
couple of things in mind. It's big, heavy, hot, and the battery life sucks.
But if you don't care about those things, it's got good performance (HD,
memory, processor), the screen is nice, and it's graphics performance is
about as good as it gets (in a laptop, anyway).

Clint



And
M60
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Benjamin G » Wed, 22 Sep 2004 23:11:12


That's a silly advice, sorry. The size of video memory is quite unimportant
on notebooks, since even the fastest notebook gfx does not provide enough
performance to make use of the bigger Video memory size. The CPU on the
other side is quite important, especially for 3D rendering and compiling
times.


Well, there are enough P-M-based notebooks with heat problems as well. And a
P-M under high load reaches the same temperatures like a P4-M. I'd also
avoid a desktop CPU but a P4-M can even be a better choice than a P-M,
depending on the applications.

Benjamin
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Quaoa » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 03:58:19


Your comment about video/video ram on notebooks is flatly incorrect.
Perhaps five years ago, but certainly not currently.

Q
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Benjamin G » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 04:17:34


[snip]


Well, it is correct. More video memory doesn't mean the gfx is faster.

First of all, video RAM size is only important for textures. If textures
don't fit in the Video memory than the system has to swap them to main
memory which is slow.

Current high end notebooks use Radeon Mobility 9700 and (like the Dell
I9100) Radeon 9800 GPUs. These GPUs are below the performance range of a
desktop Radeon 9600 card which isn't really a highend card by todays
standards. With the GPU being limited by its performance, it doesn't make
much difference if it has 64MB, 128MB or 256MB as long as the memory
interface width and the core/RAM clock rates are the same. 128MB makes sense
on cards in the speed range of a desktop Radeon 9700, speeds which no
notebook gfx chipset of today comes even somewhat close to.

Much more important is the memory interface width, and the core and memory
clock of the gfx part. There are huge differences in how high the clock
rates are set on different notebooks, and often enough the model with more
video memory has lower clock rates which makes it slower than the same GPU
with less video memory.

Saying to get as much video memory as possible, no matter what CPU is
foolish. Every system is only as good as it's weakest part...

Benjamin
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Chris True » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 05:50:15

I am looking at the 9100 vs M60.


Chris.
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Clin » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 06:31:55

I ended up with the 9100 instead of the M60 due to budget constraints.
Given the choice again, I would have fought harder for the M60 (or D800), or
cut down somewhere else to make it fit. The 9100 is just too big, and
battery life sucks too badly. The laptop size is bad enough (close to 10
pounds), but the AC adapter is in a class by itself at almost 2 pounds. I
also kick myself for buying a unit without a docking station. You can't add
one onto the 9100, and I miss that feature.

I use mine for software development (including running SQL Server)
primarily, as well as general management tasks. I've found the 9100 with
the 3.0GHz processor kept up pretty closely to my P4 2.4GHz desktop machine
(both with 1GB RAM and 7200 rpm drives). Unfortunately, I don't have a
Pentium-M to compare it to.

Clint
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Quaoa » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 06:51:03


Flagrant bullshit.

Q
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Benjamin G » Thu, 23 Sep 2004 21:07:29


[useless fullquote]


Well, since You haven't any other arguments here and obviously no clue of
what You're talking about I suspect it makes no sense to continue
discussion.

EOD

Benjamin
 
 
 

Intel Pentium-M vs Pentium-IV

Post by Good Ma » Sat, 25 Sep 2004 03:24:21

Chris Trueman < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > wrote in



Go for the Pentium-M. It's as fast as a 3Ghz, it won't burn your desk/lap
wherever you use it (Pentium 4's are HOTTTTT), and it will last longer than
60 minutes on battery.

I have a Pentium-M 1.4 Ghz (comparable in speed to a Pentium-4 2.6), do all
the things you want to do, and find it speedy and stable and cool.