Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by BreadWithS » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:11:18


Patrick James < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:


The problem with tear-offs is that if they are not on the top of
the screen, they are much harder to aim at.

OTOH, it would be very nice for the menubar to either live on
every screen or to follow the mouse from screen to screen when
one is using multiple screens.

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by TaliesinSo » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:16:30

On 2010-12-28 12:11:18 -0600, XXXX@XXXXX.COM said:


Or even better, at least to me, would be an optional popup menu that
would appear wherever the cursor happened to be.

--
James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas

 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by nospa » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:24:19


Amen.

I really prefer the scheme where at least the app-related part of the
menu bar is part of the app window. If I'm working in an app anyway, it
is annoying to have to look and mouse all the way up to the menu bar.
That just isn't where my attention is focussed. Also, if the menu bar is
with the app, then you don't have the (quite common in my experience)
annoyance of failing to find the right stuff in the menu bar because the
wrong app has focus. Alas, this just ain't gonna change on the Mac. I
wish it would, but I know better than to expect it to.

And all of these things are at their worst with multiple screens. With
the menu bar on the other screen from where you are otherwise doing
something, it doesn't even have the advantage of being "easy to aim at".
In fact, it can be quite a pain to aim at because it is easy for the
mouse to get "stuck" in a corner of the wrong screen unless your screens
happen to be identical in height. You have to deliberately aim to cross
the screen boundary somewhere in the part of the boundary that is common
to both screens.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by sbt » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 03:29:18

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, TaliesinSoft



Hmmm, that sounds like the original "Popup Menu" defproc that Robert
Stromberg put out in about 1986 or '87.

--
Spenser
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by Patrick Ja » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 04:21:45

On 2010-12-28 18:11:18 +0000, XXXX@XXXXX.COM said:


This is often said of course, but I wonder about it a bit. After all,
many applications now have windows that have buttons and menus at the
top and I've never felt them to be harder to aim at than the menu bar.
It is not something I've tested.


I'm a two screen guy and I understand this one.

I wonder if such a menu bar would be pushing down the windows when it appeare?

I still quite like my own floating menu bar suggestion :)

Maybe it would be neat to have a keyboard shortcut that would bring the
floating menubar to wherever the mouse happens to be?

--
Patrick
< http://www.yqcomputer.com/ >
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by BreadWithS » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 05:38:01

TaliesinSoft < XXXX@XXXXX.COM > writes:


There was an extension of some sort for ancient Mac OS (I forget which
version I used it with - perhaps System 7?) which gave one that. I
could easily see how it would be great for folks with large screens. At
the time, of course, that certainly wasn't me...

--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by BreadWithS » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 05:43:12


XXXX@XXXXX.COM (Richard Maine) writes:




That has other problems from a user-interface design POV. It's a lot
harder to aim at a menu which has small and finite height. A menubar
at the top of the screen is very easy - and thus faster - to hit
because it effectively has infinite height. You can't overshoot it.

I do like pop-up menus, though, since if they appear where your mouse
already is, you don't have to aim.


Never going to happen.


I also sometimes end up with palettes on the wrong screen, too.
(ie. just happened in Pages - working on a document on screen 2, but
when I moved the doc there, the palette ("inspector") was left over
on screen 1.


In general, I believe the solution is to have the screens lined up at
their tops. Then, again, you have infinite height to zoom up to and
know you can slide over.

One more UI thing that I really hate about current OS X. The Help
system. Bad enough that it's annoying and slow and, to my usage,
cumbersome to navigate. (I actually find things like a PDF manual to be
more useful generally). But the fact that it floats in front of all
application windows all the time? Seriously?


--
Plain Bread alone for e-mail, thanks. The rest gets trashed.
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by nospa » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:01:32

In article <1ju7gcv.gy1wm9k8uraiN% XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Richard Maine



although you may prefer menu bars inside app windows, they're slower
than a fixed menu bar at the top. apple put it at the top for a reason,
and it should stay that way.
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by nospa » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:01:33

In article < XXXX@XXXXX.COM >, Patrick James



others have measured it and it's slower. the menu bar at the top is
infinitely large and it has a fixed location. a menu bar in a window is
narrow and wherever that window happens to be.
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by nospa » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 06:48:22


...which happens to be exactly where I am working, by definition. The
infinitely large part doesn't apply if it is on the wrong screen, as
mentioned before, as you have to hit a limitted zone to switch screens.
I find it handier for other purposes to align my screens at the bottom
instead of the top. Systems that only work with particular choices of
screen alignment, even though Apple supports multiple alignments, don't
strike me as convincingly superior. And even if it is quick to get to
the top bar, I then need to get back to the app I was working with. When
I started out in that app and want to stay there, I just can't see how
it is so obviously superior for me to go somewhere else, possibly far
away, to do something within the app.

I've worked with both kinds of designs and my personal observation is
that it is easier for me to use when it is with the app. No amount of
theorizing is going to convince me to disbelieve my own observation.

But then I also know that no amount of arguing is going to make it
change (particularly arguing here instead of with the top people at
Apple), and I strongly suspect that no amount of arguing is going to
convince adherents of the existing scheme. There would be little obvious
benefit to such religious conversion anyway, so I suppose I'll stop with
the posts on the subject.

--
Richard Maine | Good judgment comes from experience;
email: last name at domain . net | experience comes from bad judgment.
domain: summertriangle | -- Mark Twain
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by TaliesinSo » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 07:59:50

On 2010-12-28 15:48:22 -0600, Richard Maine said:

[in regards to menu and tool placement]


It seems that increasingly applications rely just as much on tools at
the top of the applications window and in other locations within the
application's windows as they do on the menu at the top of the screen.
I'll state that I have no difficulty using those click points other
than at the main menu at the top. And as I rrecently stated it seems
that a very useful option would be to have the main menu to optionally
appear at the location of the cursor upon a particular keystroke.


--
James Leo Ryan - Austin, Texas
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by Patrick Ja » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 14:23:41

On 2010-12-28 21:01:32 +0000, nospam said:


You do make a very good point, but when Apple put the menu bar at the
top the Mac had a 9 inch screen which I remember using very well.

I know that people often say that the menu bar is quicker because of
course the mouse cursor can't go over the edge at the top but it is
difficult to believe that it is and with my main screen, at 24 inches,
it really does feel slower :)

I think the psychological thing is possibly more important than real
speed. The nano-seconds saved don't amount to very much, but the
feeling of "I have to go all the way up to the top of the screen again"
is important.

In fact I don't use a regular mouse myself at all. I use a roller and a
Kensington track ball. Both of these I much prefer to the standard
mouse.

I wouldn't personally want to see menu items in application windows, I
quite like the idea of a floating menu bar :) This menu bar could have
a keyboard short-cut that meant that it would go to wherever the mouse
cursor is when you pressed the shortcut.

--
Patrick
< http://www.yqcomputer.com/ >
 
 
 

Tweaks to OS X Interface ( OS 9 things I'd like to see in OS X)

Post by jamiek » Thu, 30 Dec 2010 16:41:52


I also wonder just how big people's screens are or how slow their mouse
tracking.
--
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.